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#1 · January 9, 2022, 12:27 pm

I'm all for seeding state, but it has had some negative consequences. Some of the best tournaments used to be a combination of great class A and class B schools. There are still a rare few, but not many. Criteria has become more important then competition. Another consequence is dodging. People try to say no one is dodging, but we all know better. Kids get one win one win over a good opponent and will duck him the rest of the year to keep Criteria. I know there is no fix, but.....

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#2 · January 13, 2022, 1:11 pm

I get the sentiment and agree to some extent, but I think the teams that are "battle tested" come out better in the postseason regardless. When you haven't dodged competition and consistently try to compete with the best, the kids will shine. A "tougher draw" doesn't necessarily matter as much to someone who's been in a dogfight nearly every week of the year.

Take a look at the Stevens / Philip dual a few weeks ago - one A school, one B, neither with many matches yet in the season. Not a lot of upside on the criteria side of things, but it was a fun dual and kids battled it out.

Just my two cents - it normally works out ok in the end. There's probably some ducking going on out there, but the tradeoff is potentially having a state semifinal match occur early in the tournament.

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#3 · January 14, 2022, 8:31 am

If you are coaching your kids to duck around and move away from competition during the regular season, you are setting them up to not be successful in the post season and missing the point and/or spirit of great wrestling.

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#4 · January 17, 2022, 12:07 pm

You’re not wrong, there’s ducking going on sometimes but the other choice is to not seed state which is a bigger problem. I’ve watched nationals tournaments where (eventual) #1 and #3 wrestle each other in the round of 32 or 64 and that’s no bueno. Luckily many of those tournaments have true second where 3rd can challenge 2nd for the right to the runner-up spot. The system isn’t perfect and can always be tweaked but I’d still prefer seeding to 10th or 12th whenever possible.

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#5 · January 19, 2022, 11:59 am

I dont see the benefit of seeding out to 10 or 12, when comparing it to seeding 8. My thought is with 8 places in SD, seed the top 8 wrestlers. But, if you want to seed more, then why not just seed all 16? We will always get the argument what about the 11th best kid if we only seed 10. Or what about the 13th best kid when we seed 12.

I just think that to say we are seeding 8 because we place 8 is a logical step and a good natural break point. However, if we seed more than 8, I say just seed out all 16 guys and let them settle it on the mat.

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#6 · February 19, 2022, 7:09 pm

After what happened in the region 3B tournament, I'll just leave this here.

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#7 · February 19, 2022, 11:24 pm

One thing to remember when deciding how many kids to seed is that you have to consider a kid is better off being seeded #15 or #16 than they are being seeded #11-14...if their goal is to make the podium. The #15/16 kids are in that part of the bracket where they would only have to beat a #7 or #8 seed in the heartbreak round to make the podium...the #11-14 seeds would have to beat a #5 or 6 seed to make the final 8...that's why it makes sense to only seed out to 10.

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#8 · February 20, 2022, 8:56 am

Quote from Overweight on February 19, 2022, 7:09 pm

After what happened in the region 3B tournament, I'll just leave this here.

What are you referring to?

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#9 · February 20, 2022, 9:12 am

Quote from Overweight on February 19, 2022, 7:09 pm

After what happened in the region 3B tournament, I'll just leave this here.

what happened in that region?

#10 · February 20, 2022, 11:04 am

In a 3rd place match both kids wanted to forfeit. Ended up with 2 4th place kids. No 3rd

#11 · February 20, 2022, 11:37 am

Lots of medical forfeits in placing matches at Regions yesterday. Most are legit but a few are questionable. Why risk your State seeding over someone you have an edge over by losing to them at Region?

THAT is one of the downsides of seeding State. Dodging late in the year.

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#12 · February 20, 2022, 9:06 pm

Have seen the ducking deal happen this year. Not ok in my opinion. I get why they do it but I still disagree with it. Kids should continue to earn it.
Also ND did regions this year where 2 regions battled it out for the top 8 to go to state, seems like a legit deal would sort out some of the ducking prior to state maybe. Then seed state the old way.

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#13 · February 20, 2022, 9:52 pm

I like the idea of a "Super Region" of sorts. That combined region tourney would sure be fun and have some heightened tension in the air.

#14 · February 20, 2022, 10:09 pm

That appears to already be happening in 3B

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#15 · February 21, 2022, 12:28 am

According to the last B ratings, 8 of the top 15 teams are from Region 3.

Last year at state, Region 3 scored twice as many points as 2 other regions.

Canton has to love Region 3!!

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#16 · February 21, 2022, 5:06 pm

Things should not be touched for a so called “super region”. Basketball has the same problem with one region dominating state. Sometimes life isn’t fair, and we are teaching the young kids that life is bigger than the sport

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#17 · February 22, 2022, 8:53 pm

Basketball has went to a sweet 16 as an answer to that. We started seeding state to make things better. Maybe it's time to look at super regions or something like that.

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#18 · February 22, 2022, 9:56 pm

Quote from Overweight on February 22, 2022, 8:53 pm

Basketball has went to a sweet 16 as an answer to that. We started seeding state to make things better. Maybe it's time to look at super regions or something like that.

Maybe Super Regions would help cut down on the number of losing records making it to the state tournament.
38 losing records. I used to think 1 or 2 was rare to see. But 38?!?!?!

#19 · February 22, 2022, 10:16 pm

Make it one class for the individual tournament. The combined rankings show a fairly even distribution between A and B. This would be a great way to end the season.

Have two classes for duals.

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#20 · February 23, 2022, 1:06 am

Quote from Poloboy94 on February 20, 2022, 9:06 pm

Have seen the ducking deal happen this year. Not ok in my opinion. I get why they do it but I still disagree with it. Kids should continue to earn it.
Also ND did regions this year where 2 regions battled it out for the top 8 to go to state, seems like a legit deal would sort out some of the ducking prior to state maybe. Then seed state the old way.

You are correct, ND did change the format this year and chose not to seed the state tournament. I would say it was a big mistake! Check out the thread on the ND board.. I don’t think anyone thought it worked out well.

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Unintended consequences of seeding state

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