Thoughts on SD State Wrestling Tournament
Quote from Walt Whitcher on February 22, 2024, 5:47 pmThe organizers of the State Tournament need to be replaced with quality people that know how to organize a wrestling tournament. 3 days for a 16 man bracket tournament does not need to be run over 3 days. If they are going to go with 3 days why the heck would you only have the Second Session on Thursday be only the quarterfinals; why is the 1st round consolation matches not on Thursday afternoon. Under the current schedule the Consolation wrestlers have to wrestle 4 times on Friday to advance. Who is the idiots that came up with this crappie schedule
The organizers of the State Tournament need to be replaced with quality people that know how to organize a wrestling tournament. 3 days for a 16 man bracket tournament does not need to be run over 3 days. If they are going to go with 3 days why the heck would you only have the Second Session on Thursday be only the quarterfinals; why is the 1st round consolation matches not on Thursday afternoon. Under the current schedule the Consolation wrestlers have to wrestle 4 times on Friday to advance. Who is the idiots that came up with this crappie schedule
Quote from wrestlingdadandfan on February 22, 2024, 6:39 pmIt's hard to see the scores, would like to see the big huge scoreboard hanging from the ceiling used as a scoreboard again.
It's hard to see the scores, would like to see the big huge scoreboard hanging from the ceiling used as a scoreboard again.
Quote from All Knowing 2.0 on February 22, 2024, 7:55 pmI agree Walt!
I agree Walt!
Quote from 3moves on February 22, 2024, 8:35 pmThere ahould have been a wrestleback today. Format of the tournament and dual tournament should not have been changed until venue could be booked for 1 day less. Holding people "hostage" 1 more day is dumb just because they booked the Denny for 3 days and then changes the format. Now kids will possibly wrestle 4 times tomorrow and wrestlers have to make weight 3 days?
There ahould have been a wrestleback today. Format of the tournament and dual tournament should not have been changed until venue could be booked for 1 day less. Holding people "hostage" 1 more day is dumb just because they booked the Denny for 3 days and then changes the format. Now kids will possibly wrestle 4 times tomorrow and wrestlers have to make weight 3 days?
Quote from Armbar on February 23, 2024, 9:53 amWith no duals IT SHOULD BE TWO DAYS!!!!!
With no duals IT SHOULD BE TWO DAYS!!!!!
Quote from Armbar on February 23, 2024, 10:02 amIF they just have to have it 3 days, then have the Qt. Finals a little later on Thursday, and Friday NIGHT semifinals! No need to start anything before noon on any of the days. Showcase the sport as much as possible. On Saturday have a NICE AWARDS stand. Do the HOF induction before the finals and have each member bring family members to awards stand and take pictures. Placing matches should start each weight only when other weights are finished. L:little things would make a big difference.
IF they just have to have it 3 days, then have the Qt. Finals a little later on Thursday, and Friday NIGHT semifinals! No need to start anything before noon on any of the days. Showcase the sport as much as possible. On Saturday have a NICE AWARDS stand. Do the HOF induction before the finals and have each member bring family members to awards stand and take pictures. Placing matches should start each weight only when other weights are finished. L:little things would make a big difference.
Quote from Thrashtrasher on February 23, 2024, 5:26 pmRef Roach should be done for the tournament. That was a terrible call in the semifinals. He called an illegal slam on Tyler Badwin of Sturgis and it was a very clean mat return. You can watch it on sdpb mat 6 semifinal class A. You can’t tell me otherwise that was an illegal slam. If that’s illegal then why even wrestle
Ref Roach should be done for the tournament. That was a terrible call in the semifinals. He called an illegal slam on Tyler Badwin of Sturgis and it was a very clean mat return. You can watch it on sdpb mat 6 semifinal class A. You can’t tell me otherwise that was an illegal slam. If that’s illegal then why even wrestle
Quote from 3pointnearfall on February 23, 2024, 8:03 pmI watched it. The reason that call was correct is because Baldwin had a trapped arm on the mat return and drove the Pierre kid into the mat on his trapped arm shoulder. Whether you like Roach or not, that was the correct call. It sucks for Baldwin because he certainly should be in the finals, but rules are rules unfortunately
I watched it. The reason that call was correct is because Baldwin had a trapped arm on the mat return and drove the Pierre kid into the mat on his trapped arm shoulder. Whether you like Roach or not, that was the correct call. It sucks for Baldwin because he certainly should be in the finals, but rules are rules unfortunately
Quote from Thrashtrasher on February 23, 2024, 8:36 pmyou can’t see the arm on the sdpb but call me old school but everyone would slam with or without the arm. I thought it was a clean mat return. Also the kid wasn’t hurt may have gotten the wind knocked out of him but the Pierre coaches know what they were doing.
you can’t see the arm on the sdpb but call me old school but everyone would slam with or without the arm. I thought it was a clean mat return. Also the kid wasn’t hurt may have gotten the wind knocked out of him but the Pierre coaches know what they were doing.
Quote from Major on February 23, 2024, 8:49 pmOld school or not, rules are rules. You can’t slam someone with an arm trapped. Hopefully the Pierre wrestler can wrestle his finals match tomorrow. Good luck to both of them tomorrow.
Old school or not, rules are rules. You can’t slam someone with an arm trapped. Hopefully the Pierre wrestler can wrestle his finals match tomorrow. Good luck to both of them tomorrow.
Quote from Rus Kantager on February 23, 2024, 8:50 pmQuote from 3pointnearfall on February 23, 2024, 8:03 pmI watched it. The reason that call was correct is because Baldwin had a trapped arm on the mat return and drove the Pierre kid into the mat on his trapped arm shoulder. Whether you like Roach or not, that was the correct call. It sucks for Baldwin because he certainly should be in the finals, but rules are rules unfortunately
watched it too.... did not see a trapped arm.
Quote from 3pointnearfall on February 23, 2024, 8:03 pmI watched it. The reason that call was correct is because Baldwin had a trapped arm on the mat return and drove the Pierre kid into the mat on his trapped arm shoulder. Whether you like Roach or not, that was the correct call. It sucks for Baldwin because he certainly should be in the finals, but rules are rules unfortunately
watched it too.... did not see a trapped arm.
Quote from Thrashtrasher on February 23, 2024, 8:56 pmQuote from Major on February 23, 2024, 8:49 pmOld school or not, rules are rules. You can’t slam someone with an arm trapped. Hopefully the Pierre wrestler can wrestle his finals match tomorrow. Good luck to both of them tomorrow.
He will wrestle tomorrow because he’s fine. I guarantee the first they his coaches told him was not to move. Then they pry asked if he was alright. Also I just rewatched the “slam” and you can see his left arm fully extended out about half way down. Go watch it in slow motion. His arm was not trapped. Roach has always been a terrible ref. Sure call potentially dangerous but when these kids are working hard all year and to have it derailed by that is unreal. They need to change that rule, you get 1 warning then after that okay whatever. No kid goes out there with the intent to hurt another one.
Quote from Major on February 23, 2024, 8:49 pmOld school or not, rules are rules. You can’t slam someone with an arm trapped. Hopefully the Pierre wrestler can wrestle his finals match tomorrow. Good luck to both of them tomorrow.
He will wrestle tomorrow because he’s fine. I guarantee the first they his coaches told him was not to move. Then they pry asked if he was alright. Also I just rewatched the “slam” and you can see his left arm fully extended out about half way down. Go watch it in slow motion. His arm was not trapped. Roach has always been a terrible ref. Sure call potentially dangerous but when these kids are working hard all year and to have it derailed by that is unreal. They need to change that rule, you get 1 warning then after that okay whatever. No kid goes out there with the intent to hurt another one.
Quote from G on February 23, 2024, 9:27 pmQuote from Thrashtrasher on February 23, 2024, 5:26 pmRef Roach should be done for the tournament. That was a terrible call in the semifinals. He called an illegal slam on Tyler Badwin of Sturgis and it was a very clean mat return. You can watch it on sdpb mat 6 semifinal class A. You can’t tell me otherwise that was an illegal slam. If that’s illegal then why even wrestle
Robbed the kid.
Quote from Thrashtrasher on February 23, 2024, 5:26 pmRef Roach should be done for the tournament. That was a terrible call in the semifinals. He called an illegal slam on Tyler Badwin of Sturgis and it was a very clean mat return. You can watch it on sdpb mat 6 semifinal class A. You can’t tell me otherwise that was an illegal slam. If that’s illegal then why even wrestle
Robbed the kid.
Quote from WellArmed on February 23, 2024, 9:39 pmI'm from North Dakota. I have no horse in the race. I'll give my .02.
There was 100% definitely NOT a trapped arm. Sooooooo....the ref....will NEVER say "It's because there was a trapped arm". If that's the case, the ref will be rightfully hammered by the fans for a bad call. Not just a bad call, but a call that changed a kids state tournament. By now the, ref has read comments, etc...so there is NO WAY he'll go with the "his arm was trapped" angle. It simply wasn't trapped. It's silly that some are arguing that. If they are arguing it, it's logical that they would change their mind if they saw the video.
It is a judgment call. Up to the ref. Yes, he has certain criteria to follow, or to try to follow, but it is still a judgement call.
Based on MANY mat returns I've seen over my lifetime, and ones that have been called slams and ones that haven't....I don't think I've ever seen a mat return like that-- that's been deemed a slam.
My opinion is, absolutely not a mat return deemed a slam.
In addition, I sent it to a current ND Ref, A ND 1x state champ who wrestled in college, and a ND 3x state champ who wrestled in college. And a ND 2x State champ that wrestled in college, all of whom are still involved deeply in wrestling (coaching or parenting). All from ND, none with a horse in the race. They've never heard of either kid.
Here was there responses:
Person 1 - "absolutely not"
Person 2 - "no way was that a slam"
Person 3 - didn't answer
ND Ref - "Looks pretty forceful. Like he "threw him" down into the mat and pushed his shoulder into his back. I would love to never call that, but since we live in a world full of _________ I've been told to call that a slam." He later added "in all fairness, I've seen much worse not called a slam"Video is here, just click play, the alleged slam happens shortly after you click play ----> https://youtu.be/hbIsxuFgHcU?list=PLCvVBOK6lIHumiepGGrKNd1Hr2PtkAZ6i&t=4058
It just sucks for both kids. I mean, sure...my opinion is no slam...but that doesn't mean I'm right.
I'm from North Dakota. I have no horse in the race. I'll give my .02.
There was 100% definitely NOT a trapped arm. Sooooooo....the ref....will NEVER say "It's because there was a trapped arm". If that's the case, the ref will be rightfully hammered by the fans for a bad call. Not just a bad call, but a call that changed a kids state tournament. By now the, ref has read comments, etc...so there is NO WAY he'll go with the "his arm was trapped" angle. It simply wasn't trapped. It's silly that some are arguing that. If they are arguing it, it's logical that they would change their mind if they saw the video.
It is a judgment call. Up to the ref. Yes, he has certain criteria to follow, or to try to follow, but it is still a judgement call.
Based on MANY mat returns I've seen over my lifetime, and ones that have been called slams and ones that haven't....I don't think I've ever seen a mat return like that-- that's been deemed a slam.
My opinion is, absolutely not a mat return deemed a slam.
In addition, I sent it to a current ND Ref, A ND 1x state champ who wrestled in college, and a ND 3x state champ who wrestled in college. And a ND 2x State champ that wrestled in college, all of whom are still involved deeply in wrestling (coaching or parenting). All from ND, none with a horse in the race. They've never heard of either kid.
Here was there responses:
Person 1 - "absolutely not"
Person 2 - "no way was that a slam"
Person 3 - didn't answer
ND Ref - "Looks pretty forceful. Like he "threw him" down into the mat and pushed his shoulder into his back. I would love to never call that, but since we live in a world full of _________ I've been told to call that a slam." He later added "in all fairness, I've seen much worse not called a slam"
Video is here, just click play, the alleged slam happens shortly after you click play ----> https://youtu.be/hbIsxuFgHcU?list=PLCvVBOK6lIHumiepGGrKNd1Hr2PtkAZ6i&t=4058
It just sucks for both kids. I mean, sure...my opinion is no slam...but that doesn't mean I'm right.
Quote from Armbar on February 23, 2024, 11:04 pmHe called it immediately that's for sure. Definitely NOT a trapped arm slam. College refs wouldn't call it but I think a lot of HS refs would have. I've always taught kids that when bringing an opponent to the mat you have to have something hit first, usually a knee. So by that criteria its a slam. I don't think it was a terrible call.
He called it immediately that's for sure. Definitely NOT a trapped arm slam. College refs wouldn't call it but I think a lot of HS refs would have. I've always taught kids that when bringing an opponent to the mat you have to have something hit first, usually a knee. So by that criteria its a slam. I don't think it was a terrible call.
Quote from William Perry on February 24, 2024, 1:38 pmThe organizers of this State Tournament should never be allow to organize another State Tourney. This scheduling by the organizers and the SDPB live streaming was disrespectful to the wrestlers and the high school fans. Need to go back to 2 day tournament; placement matches need to have face-off to highlight the hard work these wrestlers put in to get to this point in their season; put placement matches back to late afternoon and championship matches in the evening. What the hell -- did the organizers have some place to be on Saturday night that they had to push the tournament up so early on Saturday. Hopefully new people will be brought in next year to organize a quality State Wrestling Tourney. Shame on SDHSAA for this disrespectful event!
The organizers of this State Tournament should never be allow to organize another State Tourney. This scheduling by the organizers and the SDPB live streaming was disrespectful to the wrestlers and the high school fans. Need to go back to 2 day tournament; placement matches need to have face-off to highlight the hard work these wrestlers put in to get to this point in their season; put placement matches back to late afternoon and championship matches in the evening. What the hell -- did the organizers have some place to be on Saturday night that they had to push the tournament up so early on Saturday. Hopefully new people will be brought in next year to organize a quality State Wrestling Tourney. Shame on SDHSAA for this disrespectful event!
Quote from WellArmed on February 24, 2024, 4:05 pmWell, Uhrig was unable to wrestle in the state finals.
A mat return that leaves a kid unable to wrestle 24 hours, probably was returned with unnecessary force. (That's what the rule book says --- can't return opponent with more force than necessary. ) In hindsight, it obviously had to be a hard mat return if the kid can't wrestle today. That's all I got. Again, if you asked 50 refs, you'd probably get 25 on one side and 25 on the other.
Well, Uhrig was unable to wrestle in the state finals.
A mat return that leaves a kid unable to wrestle 24 hours, probably was returned with unnecessary force. (That's what the rule book says --- can't return opponent with more force than necessary. ) In hindsight, it obviously had to be a hard mat return if the kid can't wrestle today. That's all I got. Again, if you asked 50 refs, you'd probably get 25 on one side and 25 on the other.
Quote from Domini on February 24, 2024, 11:47 pmAs a parent of “older kids” and “younger kids” meaning I haven’t had much stake in the high school state tournament for a few years (we are back again) but it has definitely changed a bit from the last time one of my kiddos won a state title. I agree with most of what has been said so far about dragging the tournament of over 3 days. For goodness sakes NCAAs are only 2 days! And what happened to the flare before finals?! I agree it’s about the wrestling and not a party but no music during face offs no fun stuff to get the crowd involved (btw I loved the things that Watertown did to keep the crowd going during State Duals). We are all there to support the wrestlers but it definitely is not the state tournament atmosphere that it used to be. ….and for goodness sake somebody turn up the heat I though the grandma behind us was going to get hypothermia!
As a parent of “older kids” and “younger kids” meaning I haven’t had much stake in the high school state tournament for a few years (we are back again) but it has definitely changed a bit from the last time one of my kiddos won a state title. I agree with most of what has been said so far about dragging the tournament of over 3 days. For goodness sakes NCAAs are only 2 days! And what happened to the flare before finals?! I agree it’s about the wrestling and not a party but no music during face offs no fun stuff to get the crowd involved (btw I loved the things that Watertown did to keep the crowd going during State Duals). We are all there to support the wrestlers but it definitely is not the state tournament atmosphere that it used to be. ….and for goodness sake somebody turn up the heat I though the grandma behind us was going to get hypothermia!
Quote from Reaper on February 25, 2024, 10:04 amSportsmanship has really gone down the shitter……the whole tournament you herd a team getting 1 team point deducted for un-sportsman like conduct.
I think the state should up the game from 1 point deduction to 5 or more. Maybe high enough that it could have an effect on the team’s placement in the top 6.
Maybe go a step further and give the points to the team they were wrestling, like bonus points for pinning. (Sportsmanship Points).
Sportsmanship has really gone down the shitter……the whole tournament you herd a team getting 1 team point deducted for un-sportsman like conduct.
I think the state should up the game from 1 point deduction to 5 or more. Maybe high enough that it could have an effect on the team’s placement in the top 6.
Maybe go a step further and give the points to the team they were wrestling, like bonus points for pinning. (Sportsmanship Points).
Quote from 3moves on February 25, 2024, 12:53 pm1. Tournament too long, We all know why they did it. It was poor planning overall with Duals and State tourney. Cancel the 3rd day and take the loss.
2. Watched the Uhrig video. Unnecessary force and it was close on Baldwin touching the mat before Uhrig, which would have changed my mind. But Uhrig definitely hits the mat before Baldwin.
3. Agree on the whole no music during any warmups
4. Should still go weight by weight and raise hands of each Medal winner. Thankfully we could take the time to do 20 minute speeches for each inductee.
5. How great of us to showcase the support of Mexico, Lake City and other places we've no connection to. Sarcasm intended. WTF SDHSAA. I dont care if those mats were donated or what, that's embarrassing.
6. The SDHSAA really boned this one IMO.
7. And now we are going to have championships yearly in RC? Great. That's quite a coup for RC sloughing off track.
1. Tournament too long, We all know why they did it. It was poor planning overall with Duals and State tourney. Cancel the 3rd day and take the loss.
2. Watched the Uhrig video. Unnecessary force and it was close on Baldwin touching the mat before Uhrig, which would have changed my mind. But Uhrig definitely hits the mat before Baldwin.
3. Agree on the whole no music during any warmups
4. Should still go weight by weight and raise hands of each Medal winner. Thankfully we could take the time to do 20 minute speeches for each inductee.
5. How great of us to showcase the support of Mexico, Lake City and other places we've no connection to. Sarcasm intended. WTF SDHSAA. I dont care if those mats were donated or what, that's embarrassing.
6. The SDHSAA really boned this one IMO.
7. And now we are going to have championships yearly in RC? Great. That's quite a coup for RC sloughing off track.
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