Splitting up the boys and girls tournament
Quote from Nacho on February 27, 2022, 3:30 pmWhile I thought it was nice having the girls tournament with the boys, this needs to change. These sessions got way too long and wrestlers had very little, if any, down time in between the morning and afternoon sessions and the evening sessions ran until nearly 10 o'clock which is brutal with early morning weigh ins the next day. The girls need to have their own tournament, its just too much.
While I thought it was nice having the girls tournament with the boys, this needs to change. These sessions got way too long and wrestlers had very little, if any, down time in between the morning and afternoon sessions and the evening sessions ran until nearly 10 o'clock which is brutal with early morning weigh ins the next day. The girls need to have their own tournament, its just too much.
Quote from CoachRingst on February 27, 2022, 3:50 pmThe girls session only added roughly 30 minutes to the sessions where they went first..not that bad. In the past years of the two-day individual event, there has never been much "down time" in between sessions, and both nights went fairly late (not til 10, though I was done eating and back to the hotel by 10 on Thursday, AND we were at our team dinner by 9:45 on Friday) Let's just put them at the fairgrounds and let them wrestle in the barn while we are at it.
Better solution, since they did a great job keeping the coaches and athletes off the floor until they were on the mat, they can move the photographers area to the middle and then put 10 mats down and mix the girls into the sessions. The worst time killer was when they waited for all the girls matches to be done to start the boys. That's not the girls fault, that is the way the tournament was run.
The girls session only added roughly 30 minutes to the sessions where they went first..not that bad. In the past years of the two-day individual event, there has never been much "down time" in between sessions, and both nights went fairly late (not til 10, though I was done eating and back to the hotel by 10 on Thursday, AND we were at our team dinner by 9:45 on Friday) Let's just put them at the fairgrounds and let them wrestle in the barn while we are at it.
Better solution, since they did a great job keeping the coaches and athletes off the floor until they were on the mat, they can move the photographers area to the middle and then put 10 mats down and mix the girls into the sessions. The worst time killer was when they waited for all the girls matches to be done to start the boys. That's not the girls fault, that is the way the tournament was run.
Quote from Nacho on February 27, 2022, 4:18 pmNot saying they should have any less of a state tournament? Just their own. That's not a terrible solution but it will make it even more difficult to watch matches at the other end of the arena which is already pretty difficult to do. Mixing them in would be fine, but it was closer to an hour than a half hour once the boys were rolling. Spectators can't leave the building and come back in so long sessions suck for them. Teams who have wrestlers at 106 all the way to HWT get to go back to the hotel, shower, and turn around and head back to warm up giving them very little recovery time. It's not ideal for wrestlers or spectators. My solution is to give them their own tournament like it is for every other sport but if keeping them together is the move, then lets figure something out.
Not saying they should have any less of a state tournament? Just their own. That's not a terrible solution but it will make it even more difficult to watch matches at the other end of the arena which is already pretty difficult to do. Mixing them in would be fine, but it was closer to an hour than a half hour once the boys were rolling. Spectators can't leave the building and come back in so long sessions suck for them. Teams who have wrestlers at 106 all the way to HWT get to go back to the hotel, shower, and turn around and head back to warm up giving them very little recovery time. It's not ideal for wrestlers or spectators. My solution is to give them their own tournament like it is for every other sport but if keeping them together is the move, then lets figure something out.
Quote from CoachRingst on February 27, 2022, 4:55 pm"But, at the moment, if the girls had a state tournament of their own, I think it would be a drawback for them. Mostly because it's not big enough yet to replicate the environment of the boys' state tournament, which I think is a huge draw."
A post from you about a week ago. I agree that everyone has the right to change their opinion, right now the girls division is not big enough to sustain its own event. Can we embrace the growth of the sport? Granted, we did not have a full team, but we went for the entirety of all sessions. We stayed down on 41st street. We experienced the time crunch in between. None of our kids complained about it and as for me, it was what it was.
And please do not compare to basketball. Last I knew boys and girls track was held together. Putting the girls on their own weekend with their own event I don't believe would bring the ultimate downfall to girls wrestling, but right now the draw is to be in the same venue at the same event as the other wrestlers. To split it up would be a huge mistake. I think a simple fix of mixing the girls into the regular rounds of competition would be the best "fix" for now if more mats cannot be put in, which they can easily, just a matter of SDHSAA "wants" to.
"But, at the moment, if the girls had a state tournament of their own, I think it would be a drawback for them. Mostly because it's not big enough yet to replicate the environment of the boys' state tournament, which I think is a huge draw."
A post from you about a week ago. I agree that everyone has the right to change their opinion, right now the girls division is not big enough to sustain its own event. Can we embrace the growth of the sport? Granted, we did not have a full team, but we went for the entirety of all sessions. We stayed down on 41st street. We experienced the time crunch in between. None of our kids complained about it and as for me, it was what it was.
And please do not compare to basketball. Last I knew boys and girls track was held together. Putting the girls on their own weekend with their own event I don't believe would bring the ultimate downfall to girls wrestling, but right now the draw is to be in the same venue at the same event as the other wrestlers. To split it up would be a huge mistake. I think a simple fix of mixing the girls into the regular rounds of competition would be the best "fix" for now if more mats cannot be put in, which they can easily, just a matter of SDHSAA "wants" to.
Quote from Ben Johnson on February 27, 2022, 5:24 pmQuote from CoachRingst on February 27, 2022, 4:55 pm"But, at the moment, if the girls had a state tournament of their own, I think it would be a drawback for them. Mostly because it's not big enough yet to replicate the environment of the boys' state tournament, which I think is a huge draw."
A post from you about a week ago. I agree that everyone has the right to change their opinion, right now the girls division is not big enough to sustain its own event. Can we embrace the growth of the sport? Granted, we did not have a full team, but we went for the entirety of all sessions. We stayed down on 41st street. We experienced the time crunch in between. None of our kids complained about it and as for me, it was what it was.
And please do not compare to basketball. Last I knew boys and girls track was held together. Putting the girls on their own weekend with their own event I don't believe would bring the ultimate downfall to girls wrestling, but right now the draw is to be in the same venue at the same event as the other wrestlers. To split it up would be a huge mistake. I think a simple fix of mixing the girls into the regular rounds of competition would be the best "fix" for now if more mats cannot be put in, which they can easily, just a matter of SDHSAA "wants" to.
Very well said coach, keeping the matches rolling instead of waiting would have eliminated a lot of the issues.
Quote from CoachRingst on February 27, 2022, 4:55 pm"But, at the moment, if the girls had a state tournament of their own, I think it would be a drawback for them. Mostly because it's not big enough yet to replicate the environment of the boys' state tournament, which I think is a huge draw."
A post from you about a week ago. I agree that everyone has the right to change their opinion, right now the girls division is not big enough to sustain its own event. Can we embrace the growth of the sport? Granted, we did not have a full team, but we went for the entirety of all sessions. We stayed down on 41st street. We experienced the time crunch in between. None of our kids complained about it and as for me, it was what it was.
And please do not compare to basketball. Last I knew boys and girls track was held together. Putting the girls on their own weekend with their own event I don't believe would bring the ultimate downfall to girls wrestling, but right now the draw is to be in the same venue at the same event as the other wrestlers. To split it up would be a huge mistake. I think a simple fix of mixing the girls into the regular rounds of competition would be the best "fix" for now if more mats cannot be put in, which they can easily, just a matter of SDHSAA "wants" to.
Very well said coach, keeping the matches rolling instead of waiting would have eliminated a lot of the issues.
Quote from Nacho on February 27, 2022, 5:49 pmI thought about starting my original post saying that I have previously spoken in favor of it but didn't think anyone cared about how my opinion has somewhat changed. But touché! As you can see I have not bashed the combination previously and have supported the improvement and growth of girls wrestling. Prior to the state tournament, I didn't take into consideration the timing issue. At the tournament, I got the impression that girls wrestling is more established than I previously thought but maybe that was influenced by the tournaments being combined. I don't want to see girls wrestling be negatively impacted but I also don't want to see it negatively impact boys wrestling and as girls wrestling continues to grow the timing will become more of an issue. If we are going to keep them together the SDHSAA needs to step in and make an adjustment. I know people who will be swayed away from coming for the duration of the event due to the marathon that it felt like so I hope we can find the best of both worlds.
I thought about starting my original post saying that I have previously spoken in favor of it but didn't think anyone cared about how my opinion has somewhat changed. But touché! As you can see I have not bashed the combination previously and have supported the improvement and growth of girls wrestling. Prior to the state tournament, I didn't take into consideration the timing issue. At the tournament, I got the impression that girls wrestling is more established than I previously thought but maybe that was influenced by the tournaments being combined. I don't want to see girls wrestling be negatively impacted but I also don't want to see it negatively impact boys wrestling and as girls wrestling continues to grow the timing will become more of an issue. If we are going to keep them together the SDHSAA needs to step in and make an adjustment. I know people who will be swayed away from coming for the duration of the event due to the marathon that it felt like so I hope we can find the best of both worlds.
Quote from East River Wrastle on February 27, 2022, 7:11 pmYou can't separate the girls, it would ruin the environment for them and kill the momentum we have there. I don't know how everyone else felt about the tournament set up but I am to the point of wishing we would scrap the dual tournament and spread the individual out to 3 days.
You can't separate the girls, it would ruin the environment for them and kill the momentum we have there. I don't know how everyone else felt about the tournament set up but I am to the point of wishing we would scrap the dual tournament and spread the individual out to 3 days.
Quote from Poloboy94 on February 27, 2022, 10:51 pmOne solution to help would be to have a hard set start time for the boys. I mean that they will not start till like 10:30 am the first day for example. The girls start at 9 and those that want to not be there at 9am won’t need to worry about missing a 106 boys match as no boys start prior to 10:30. Or at least make it 1 hour for sure after session start time. Then do the same for each session. It’s not like the ol’ AAU days of standing in line to get seats. These seats are set. Would help a little maybe.
And I like the idea of 10 mats. Could make 3 of those dedicated to the girls if we all start at the same time. there has to be a way to think it thru and keep it together for now till it out grows a boys/girls state tourney.
One solution to help would be to have a hard set start time for the boys. I mean that they will not start till like 10:30 am the first day for example. The girls start at 9 and those that want to not be there at 9am won’t need to worry about missing a 106 boys match as no boys start prior to 10:30. Or at least make it 1 hour for sure after session start time. Then do the same for each session. It’s not like the ol’ AAU days of standing in line to get seats. These seats are set. Would help a little maybe.
And I like the idea of 10 mats. Could make 3 of those dedicated to the girls if we all start at the same time. there has to be a way to think it thru and keep it together for now till it out grows a boys/girls state tourney.
Quote from DSwartos on February 28, 2022, 11:14 amI'm sitting back and fist pumping for my old coach Ringstmeyer. There may come a time when we need to separate the tournaments and give the girls their own tournament and venue. Right now is not that time. In addition, we'd have to hold it on a separate weekend because most schools share coaches for both and there's not a good weekend to do that. We have state events 20 weekends a year, and especially this time of year you can't just add things without shifting everything else. If we had it this upcoming weekend, we'd be on top of Debate and SoDak basketball playoffs. I received many calls last week about region girls basketball games on top of state wrestling, this would occur again if we held state girls wrestling this week. The state event schedule is a giant jigsaw puzzle and you can't just throw things in.
The girls added just less than 40 minutes in the first two rounds and I think 25 minutes on the 3rd and 4th round wrestlebacks. We looked at 10 mats for this year to help with time, but then there would be no seating for the wrestlers. We may be able to do it at the Summit arena in Rapid because the setup is different, but we will always be looking at trying to find seating for 600 athletes, approximately 300+ coaches, and several hundred managers. I remember the old two day tournament and I don't think we got done any later on either of these days than we did back then.
I'm sitting back and fist pumping for my old coach Ringstmeyer. There may come a time when we need to separate the tournaments and give the girls their own tournament and venue. Right now is not that time. In addition, we'd have to hold it on a separate weekend because most schools share coaches for both and there's not a good weekend to do that. We have state events 20 weekends a year, and especially this time of year you can't just add things without shifting everything else. If we had it this upcoming weekend, we'd be on top of Debate and SoDak basketball playoffs. I received many calls last week about region girls basketball games on top of state wrestling, this would occur again if we held state girls wrestling this week. The state event schedule is a giant jigsaw puzzle and you can't just throw things in.
The girls added just less than 40 minutes in the first two rounds and I think 25 minutes on the 3rd and 4th round wrestlebacks. We looked at 10 mats for this year to help with time, but then there would be no seating for the wrestlers. We may be able to do it at the Summit arena in Rapid because the setup is different, but we will always be looking at trying to find seating for 600 athletes, approximately 300+ coaches, and several hundred managers. I remember the old two day tournament and I don't think we got done any later on either of these days than we did back then.
Quote from McCook on February 28, 2022, 11:19 amYes back in the 90's we would end the Blood round at 1000-1030pm. I always had a heavy guy in that round so I remember it very well. Now we did start at 1000am and 400pm for those rounds back then. It was long days but I do like how we keep it going. Personally, as a Coach when your team is on a roll you want to keep it rolling and the past 2 years the format on the individual side did not allow that. Stay with the format and we will see what it is like next year with a couple of more mats!
Coach Andal
Yes back in the 90's we would end the Blood round at 1000-1030pm. I always had a heavy guy in that round so I remember it very well. Now we did start at 1000am and 400pm for those rounds back then. It was long days but I do like how we keep it going. Personally, as a Coach when your team is on a roll you want to keep it rolling and the past 2 years the format on the individual side did not allow that. Stay with the format and we will see what it is like next year with a couple of more mats!
Coach Andal
Quote from Armbar on February 28, 2022, 1:06 pmHow bout going back to a 3 day schedule with duals mixed in?
Day 1
1st round INDY...followed by Duals.
2nd session: QT Finals ONLY....Highlight the QT Finals for evening viewing!
Day 2
1st & 2nd Rd WB INDY...Followed by Dual Semi-Finals & Consolation (if you even wat to have those)
2nd Session: Semi-Finals INDY....followed by Dual Placing
Day 3 placing and Finals INDY only
How bout going back to a 3 day schedule with duals mixed in?
Day 1
1st round INDY...followed by Duals.
2nd session: QT Finals ONLY....Highlight the QT Finals for evening viewing!
Day 2
1st & 2nd Rd WB INDY...Followed by Dual Semi-Finals & Consolation (if you even wat to have those)
2nd Session: Semi-Finals INDY....followed by Dual Placing
Day 3 placing and Finals INDY only
Quote from Viper on February 28, 2022, 1:13 pmHere is my opinion for what it's worth:
- I loved being able to see A, B, and Girls all at one venue.
- The days seemed pretty long for me, and I was just a spectator. It would be nice if they day ended at 6:30 or 7 instead of 9:30.
- The Girls tournament needs the spectators to have the same experience, I think it would be a mistake to make them have their own tournament at this point
- I'm not sure how I feel about having the duals the same weekend but on a different day. I'm undecided on this on this
I guess the most logical solve to the issue is to have more mats at the same venue, if 10 or 12 could fit and take shorter breaks to keep the day rolling. Rocky Mountain Nationals seems to fit 16-18 mats in what feels like a smaller venue somehow. Surely we could do 10-12
Here is my opinion for what it's worth:
- I loved being able to see A, B, and Girls all at one venue.
- The days seemed pretty long for me, and I was just a spectator. It would be nice if they day ended at 6:30 or 7 instead of 9:30.
- The Girls tournament needs the spectators to have the same experience, I think it would be a mistake to make them have their own tournament at this point
- I'm not sure how I feel about having the duals the same weekend but on a different day. I'm undecided on this on this
I guess the most logical solve to the issue is to have more mats at the same venue, if 10 or 12 could fit and take shorter breaks to keep the day rolling. Rocky Mountain Nationals seems to fit 16-18 mats in what feels like a smaller venue somehow. Surely we could do 10-12
Quote from Cneville on February 28, 2022, 2:50 pmIm still not sure why we had to wait until the girls round was done to start the boys. Why not just get a match going (whether it be A or B) on the next available mat and keep the round going. I agree with Ringst, we cannot and should not have the girls separate right now. Eventually they will be big enough to have their own and I even think an A and B just like the boys, maybe not but time will tell. As for the duals, I dont think they should be on the same weekend but that is a battle for another day.
Im still not sure why we had to wait until the girls round was done to start the boys. Why not just get a match going (whether it be A or B) on the next available mat and keep the round going. I agree with Ringst, we cannot and should not have the girls separate right now. Eventually they will be big enough to have their own and I even think an A and B just like the boys, maybe not but time will tell. As for the duals, I dont think they should be on the same weekend but that is a battle for another day.
Quote from Ice on February 28, 2022, 2:51 pmI don't think breaking up the girls from the boys is the solution but instead the duals the individual. Making the duals last week of January or first week of February I think is the most logical. Lots of states run this same type of format. This way you get the dual tournament done with and every can focus on the individual side of things more. Having the duals mixed in or before will have kids dodging to avoid future matches or injuries. This also becomes a lot of matches for the certain kids that have to wrestle them all. Having them after seems fine for not avoiding but there is other downfalls. Kids either just accomplishing a lifetime goal and want to celebrate. Other kids just suffering heartbreak and not wanting to give full effort the next day. Biggest point being nobody wants to make weight after; multiple kids went up in weight because of this.
I don't think breaking up the girls from the boys is the solution but instead the duals the individual. Making the duals last week of January or first week of February I think is the most logical. Lots of states run this same type of format. This way you get the dual tournament done with and every can focus on the individual side of things more. Having the duals mixed in or before will have kids dodging to avoid future matches or injuries. This also becomes a lot of matches for the certain kids that have to wrestle them all. Having them after seems fine for not avoiding but there is other downfalls. Kids either just accomplishing a lifetime goal and want to celebrate. Other kids just suffering heartbreak and not wanting to give full effort the next day. Biggest point being nobody wants to make weight after; multiple kids went up in weight because of this.
Quote from Fat125 on February 28, 2022, 3:56 pmQuote from Ice on February 28, 2022, 2:51 pmMaking the duals last week of January or first week of February I think is the most logical. Lots of states run this same type of format. This way you get the dual tournament done with and every can focus on the individual side of things more. Having the duals mixed in or before will have kids dodging to avoid future matches or injuries.
This is how it is done in college. National duals are roughly midseason. I like this idea. Only downside, is with the OPC next year, some kids might not make it down to their lowest eligible class the week before state.
Quote from Ice on February 28, 2022, 2:51 pmMaking the duals last week of January or first week of February I think is the most logical. Lots of states run this same type of format. This way you get the dual tournament done with and every can focus on the individual side of things more. Having the duals mixed in or before will have kids dodging to avoid future matches or injuries.
This is how it is done in college. National duals are roughly midseason. I like this idea. Only downside, is with the OPC next year, some kids might not make it down to their lowest eligible class the week before state.
Quote from Armbar on February 28, 2022, 4:09 pm
The schedule I'm talking about is below this post
This is how ND used to run it's tournament. I really liked it. It showcases the Qt's and Semis nice. Only wrestlers who win 1st round WB, will have 4 matches in one day....IF their team is in the Duals. It also highlights the Dual Championship on Friday instead of Saturday. Along with putting the INDY finals back on Saturday.....WHERE THEY BELONG!!
The schedule I'm talking about is below this post
This is how ND used to run it's tournament. I really liked it. It showcases the Qt's and Semis nice. Only wrestlers who win 1st round WB, will have 4 matches in one day....IF their team is in the Duals. It also highlights the Dual Championship on Friday instead of Saturday. Along with putting the INDY finals back on Saturday.....WHERE THEY BELONG!!
Quote from Armbar on February 28, 2022, 4:11 pmQuote from Armbar on February 28, 2022, 1:06 pmHow bout going back to a 3 day schedule with duals mixed in?
Day 1
1st round INDY...followed by Duals.
2nd session: QT Finals ONLY....Highlight the QT Finals for evening viewing!
Day 2
1st & 2nd Rd WB INDY...Followed by Dual Semi-Finals & Consolation (if you even wat to have those)
2nd Session: Semi-Finals INDY....followed by Dual Placing
Day 3 placing and Finals INDY only
Quote from Armbar on February 28, 2022, 1:06 pmHow bout going back to a 3 day schedule with duals mixed in?
Day 1
1st round INDY...followed by Duals.
2nd session: QT Finals ONLY....Highlight the QT Finals for evening viewing!
Day 2
1st & 2nd Rd WB INDY...Followed by Dual Semi-Finals & Consolation (if you even wat to have those)
2nd Session: Semi-Finals INDY....followed by Dual Placing
Day 3 placing and Finals INDY only
Quote from Viper on February 28, 2022, 4:20 pmQuote from Armbar on February 28, 2022, 4:09 pm
The schedule I'm talking about is below this post
This is how ND used to run it's tournament. I really liked it. It showcases the Qt's and Semis nice. Only wrestlers who win 1st round WB, will have 4 matches in one day....IF their team is in the Duals. It also highlights the Dual Championship on Friday instead of Saturday. Along with putting the INDY finals back on Saturday.....WHERE THEY BELONG!!
I think 4 matches in a day is acceptable. I've had kids wrestle 6 or 7 at a nationals tournament and I can tell you they were trashed after 5, but 4 seems do-able.
It would be nice to have placing rounds and finals on Saturday instead of Friday, more of the wrestlers classmates could make it without skipping out on school
Quote from Armbar on February 28, 2022, 4:09 pm
The schedule I'm talking about is below this post
This is how ND used to run it's tournament. I really liked it. It showcases the Qt's and Semis nice. Only wrestlers who win 1st round WB, will have 4 matches in one day....IF their team is in the Duals. It also highlights the Dual Championship on Friday instead of Saturday. Along with putting the INDY finals back on Saturday.....WHERE THEY BELONG!!
I think 4 matches in a day is acceptable. I've had kids wrestle 6 or 7 at a nationals tournament and I can tell you they were trashed after 5, but 4 seems do-able.
It would be nice to have placing rounds and finals on Saturday instead of Friday, more of the wrestlers classmates could make it without skipping out on school
Quote from Nacho on February 28, 2022, 5:09 pmI'll bet you there wasn't a single wrestler who really wanted to wrestle Saturday in the dual tournament. I spoke with a a quite a few from different teams and the consensus was the same throughout, everyone was exhausted and beat up. Integrating the duals in between the individual tournament is quite possibly the dumbest idea I've heard on this forum. We already tried it, it's terrible. If we are going to keep girls and boys together then why don't we move state duals to the end of January as previously mentioned. Right now it's too much for 2.5 days. It's hard on workers, wrestlers, and spectators (everyone) to have it the way we did this year and you'd hope it would be enjoyable not exhausting. Start the individual tournament Thursday afternoon and spread things out a little bit more.
I'll bet you there wasn't a single wrestler who really wanted to wrestle Saturday in the dual tournament. I spoke with a a quite a few from different teams and the consensus was the same throughout, everyone was exhausted and beat up. Integrating the duals in between the individual tournament is quite possibly the dumbest idea I've heard on this forum. We already tried it, it's terrible. If we are going to keep girls and boys together then why don't we move state duals to the end of January as previously mentioned. Right now it's too much for 2.5 days. It's hard on workers, wrestlers, and spectators (everyone) to have it the way we did this year and you'd hope it would be enjoyable not exhausting. Start the individual tournament Thursday afternoon and spread things out a little bit more.
Quote from interesting on February 28, 2022, 6:52 pmQuote from Nacho on February 28, 2022, 5:09 pmI'll bet you there wasn't a single wrestler who really wanted to wrestle Saturday in the dual tournament. I spoke with a a quite a few from different teams and the consensus was the same throughout, everyone was exhausted and beat up. Integrating the duals in between the individual tournament is quite possibly the dumbest idea I've heard on this forum. We already tried it, it's terrible. If we are going to keep girls and boys together then why don't we move state duals to the end of January as previously mentioned. Right now it's too much for 2.5 days. It's hard on workers, wrestlers, and spectators (everyone) to have it the way we did this year and you'd hope it would be enjoyable not exhausting. Start the individual tournament Thursday afternoon and spread things out a little bit more.
Amen… it’s brutal for the kids and some of us older fans.
Quote from Nacho on February 28, 2022, 5:09 pmI'll bet you there wasn't a single wrestler who really wanted to wrestle Saturday in the dual tournament. I spoke with a a quite a few from different teams and the consensus was the same throughout, everyone was exhausted and beat up. Integrating the duals in between the individual tournament is quite possibly the dumbest idea I've heard on this forum. We already tried it, it's terrible. If we are going to keep girls and boys together then why don't we move state duals to the end of January as previously mentioned. Right now it's too much for 2.5 days. It's hard on workers, wrestlers, and spectators (everyone) to have it the way we did this year and you'd hope it would be enjoyable not exhausting. Start the individual tournament Thursday afternoon and spread things out a little bit more.
Amen… it’s brutal for the kids and some of us older fans.
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