Referees
Quote from Jrocket on February 25, 2022, 10:27 amLet me start by saying for the most part, in my opinion, the refing was pretty good. The only complaint I have is the consistency. So many refs call things so different. I guess I am not sure of the exact training regiment right now, but it looks like a read the rules and form your own opinion type of deal.
Let me start by saying for the most part, in my opinion, the refing was pretty good. The only complaint I have is the consistency. So many refs call things so different. I guess I am not sure of the exact training regiment right now, but it looks like a read the rules and form your own opinion type of deal.
Quote from Ben Johnson on February 25, 2022, 1:24 pmAlways looking for more refs, go read the rule book and give it a shot. You might find out you don’t know the rules as well as you thought.
Always looking for more refs, go read the rule book and give it a shot. You might find out you don’t know the rules as well as you thought.
Quote from Hank on February 25, 2022, 7:06 pmIt’s the same thing every year. And it’s not about going out and reading the rule book. I’m not questioning the knowledge of the rule book, I have issue with inconsistency. From the athletes point of view, they shouldn’t have to carry a bio card on each ref and conform their actions to the way a specific ref call a match…EVERY REF SHOULD JUST CALL IT THE SAME WAY!!!
It’s the same thing every year. And it’s not about going out and reading the rule book. I’m not questioning the knowledge of the rule book, I have issue with inconsistency. From the athletes point of view, they shouldn’t have to carry a bio card on each ref and conform their actions to the way a specific ref call a match…EVERY REF SHOULD JUST CALL IT THE SAME WAY!!!
Quote from Jrocket on February 25, 2022, 9:00 pmQuote from Hank on February 25, 2022, 7:06 pmIt’s the same thing every year. And it’s not about going out and reading the rule book. I’m not questioning the knowledge of the rule book, I have issue with inconsistency. From the athletes point of view, they shouldn’t have to carry a bio card on each ref and conform their actions to the way a specific ref call a match…EVERY REF SHOULD JUST CALL IT THE SAME WAY!!!
That is what I am saying. Is that all they have to do? Read the rule book and interpret it how ever they want to? Is there actual training to make consistency?
Quote from Hank on February 25, 2022, 7:06 pmIt’s the same thing every year. And it’s not about going out and reading the rule book. I’m not questioning the knowledge of the rule book, I have issue with inconsistency. From the athletes point of view, they shouldn’t have to carry a bio card on each ref and conform their actions to the way a specific ref call a match…EVERY REF SHOULD JUST CALL IT THE SAME WAY!!!
That is what I am saying. Is that all they have to do? Read the rule book and interpret it how ever they want to? Is there actual training to make consistency?
Quote from Jrocket on February 25, 2022, 9:02 pmI am not saying I think it is easy, or that I know all the rules.
I am not saying I think it is easy, or that I know all the rules.
Quote from All Knowing 2.0 on February 25, 2022, 9:37 pmCan you clarify which situations are not being called consistently? I haven't watched enough of this tournament to have much of an opinion, but have wrestled and watched enough high school and college matches over the years to know that refs calling situations differently does happen from time to time.
Can you clarify which situations are not being called consistently? I haven't watched enough of this tournament to have much of an opinion, but have wrestled and watched enough high school and college matches over the years to know that refs calling situations differently does happen from time to time.
Quote from All Knowing 2.0 on February 25, 2022, 9:38 pmThe out of bounds rule for high school is stupid as he11 by the way.
The out of bounds rule for high school is stupid as he11 by the way.
Quote from Hank on February 25, 2022, 9:43 pmOOB, stalling, pins…the damn time clock! There is a second ref for a reason and it’s not just to agree with the the head ref…yesterday, there were several issues with the time tappers…at one point a second ref put a time tapper on the spot and called them to the table…WTF? At this level we shouldn’t even need a time tapper…WTH is the second ref being paid for…and seriously…calling out a volunteer on a tournament changing call? C’mon man!
OOB, stalling, pins…the damn time clock! There is a second ref for a reason and it’s not just to agree with the the head ref…yesterday, there were several issues with the time tappers…at one point a second ref put a time tapper on the spot and called them to the table…WTF? At this level we shouldn’t even need a time tapper…WTH is the second ref being paid for…and seriously…calling out a volunteer on a tournament changing call? C’mon man!
Quote from Jrocket on February 26, 2022, 1:40 pmQuote from Hank on February 25, 2022, 9:43 pmOOB, stalling, pins…the damn time clock! There is a second ref for a reason and it’s not just to agree with the the head ref…yesterday, there were several issues with the time tappers…at one point a second ref put a time tapper on the spot and called them to the table…WTF? At this level we shouldn’t even need a time tapper…WTH is the second ref being paid for…and seriously…calling out a volunteer on a tournament changing call? C’mon man!
Quote from Hank on February 25, 2022, 9:43 pmOOB, stalling, pins…the damn time clock! There is a second ref for a reason and it’s not just to agree with the the head ref…yesterday, there were several issues with the time tappers…at one point a second ref put a time tapper on the spot and called them to the table…WTF? At this level we shouldn’t even need a time tapper…WTH is the second ref being paid for…and seriously…calling out a volunteer on a tournament changing call? C’mon man!
Those are some of the examples. Also counting back points. Watched a ref start counting back points and the kid did NOT break 45, the kid was still at 90. And trust me, I was close enough, and the correct angle to tell the difference.
Quote from Hank on February 25, 2022, 9:43 pmOOB, stalling, pins…the damn time clock! There is a second ref for a reason and it’s not just to agree with the the head ref…yesterday, there were several issues with the time tappers…at one point a second ref put a time tapper on the spot and called them to the table…WTF? At this level we shouldn’t even need a time tapper…WTH is the second ref being paid for…and seriously…calling out a volunteer on a tournament changing call? C’mon man!
Quote from Hank on February 25, 2022, 9:43 pmOOB, stalling, pins…the damn time clock! There is a second ref for a reason and it’s not just to agree with the the head ref…yesterday, there were several issues with the time tappers…at one point a second ref put a time tapper on the spot and called them to the table…WTF? At this level we shouldn’t even need a time tapper…WTH is the second ref being paid for…and seriously…calling out a volunteer on a tournament changing call? C’mon man!
Those are some of the examples. Also counting back points. Watched a ref start counting back points and the kid did NOT break 45, the kid was still at 90. And trust me, I was close enough, and the correct angle to tell the difference.
Quote from Ben Johnson on February 26, 2022, 5:54 pmHank and Jrocket have either of you officiated? You both sound like you know the fix to the problem. Every official in the state is sitting on the edge of their seat waiting to hear how you are going to make the job easier. Everyone loves to bash the people brave enough to step out there, but don’t have the guts to do it themselves. Imagine trying to give back to the sport you love, missing time from your spouse and kids most weekends for 3 months long with a couple days during the week, just to have someone without the courage to post their name telling you to do better. Either help fix what you perceive is a problem or stop complaining, because sitting back and bitching on a forum is not going to get anything done. The OOB consistency is impossible with how it is currently written on the high school side of things, if you had seen how it was written you would know that. You guys talk about training, sounds great, now you go ask the SDHSAA for the funds, or should the refs pay that out of pocket themselves. There was talk of trying to get an evaluator to try watching every official throughout the year, but again it comes back to man power and money, which isn’t something being thrown towards the sport of wrestling unfortunately. Lots of people like to complain but most don’t do anything but complain about it.
Hank and Jrocket have either of you officiated? You both sound like you know the fix to the problem. Every official in the state is sitting on the edge of their seat waiting to hear how you are going to make the job easier. Everyone loves to bash the people brave enough to step out there, but don’t have the guts to do it themselves. Imagine trying to give back to the sport you love, missing time from your spouse and kids most weekends for 3 months long with a couple days during the week, just to have someone without the courage to post their name telling you to do better. Either help fix what you perceive is a problem or stop complaining, because sitting back and bitching on a forum is not going to get anything done. The OOB consistency is impossible with how it is currently written on the high school side of things, if you had seen how it was written you would know that. You guys talk about training, sounds great, now you go ask the SDHSAA for the funds, or should the refs pay that out of pocket themselves. There was talk of trying to get an evaluator to try watching every official throughout the year, but again it comes back to man power and money, which isn’t something being thrown towards the sport of wrestling unfortunately. Lots of people like to complain but most don’t do anything but complain about it.
Quote from Hank on February 26, 2022, 7:37 pmI sir have been a baseball umpire and I have stood on my feet for days on end in the summer Sun and I have been disrespected by players, fans and parents. I understand what these guys go through, but I also understand that we need to evolve as a group. Just sitting back and saying…it’s a flawed system, but we are too whatever to fix it is nonsense. And, yes, I understand things cost money, but is that really your excuse for being wrong? Let’s up the referee pay and let’s give them training. And if we need to change a rule, let’s do it. If someone doesn’t complain, nothing will ever happen. This is how it starts. Coming back with a bunch of excuses is worse than complaining IMO. The reality is, this is all about the kids. Our future leaders. A list of excuses does not teach them how to be better people. The complaints are legitimate and there are solutions.
I sir have been a baseball umpire and I have stood on my feet for days on end in the summer Sun and I have been disrespected by players, fans and parents. I understand what these guys go through, but I also understand that we need to evolve as a group. Just sitting back and saying…it’s a flawed system, but we are too whatever to fix it is nonsense. And, yes, I understand things cost money, but is that really your excuse for being wrong? Let’s up the referee pay and let’s give them training. And if we need to change a rule, let’s do it. If someone doesn’t complain, nothing will ever happen. This is how it starts. Coming back with a bunch of excuses is worse than complaining IMO. The reality is, this is all about the kids. Our future leaders. A list of excuses does not teach them how to be better people. The complaints are legitimate and there are solutions.
Quote from Ben Johnson on February 26, 2022, 8:19 pmI never once offered an excuse, I stated the reality of the situation. You talk about solutions but didn’t offer much of one. Want things to change, talk to the people running the SDHSAA, not bitching on a forum. Thank you for officiating baseball, as all sports are hurting in numbers but that has zero to do with your understanding of how a wrestling match should be called. We do have meetings at the beginning of every year to go over how we are going to call certain situations and to bounce around areas we can improve. Now if you had officiated wrestling you would know that it is impossible for every ref to call it the same every time based on how the rules are written and have been since organized wrestling began and it will still be happening a 100 years from now. Wrestlers and coaches are a crafty bunch and will find every possible way to use a rule to their advantage, toeing the line to the point we come up with another rule and the problem persists. It happens at the highest levels of the sport, it is a subjective sport by nature and will never be perfect, but I do agree that we can do better and should continue to strive for perfection. I would personally love to see more training offered for officials. The only officials that don’t care about getting every call right are the ones that don’t stick around for more than a year or two. In my own experience the calls that you know you got wrong but can’t change for one reason or another, eat at you for an extremely long period of time, don’t think for one second that everyone of those refs at the state tournament that reffed a match wanted to get any calls wrong. If you think that any of those guys that got something wrong over the last 3 days isn’t bothered by it right now doesn’t know those guys at all. EVERYONE OF THEM WANTS IT CALLED RIGHT, GUARANTEED!!!
I never once offered an excuse, I stated the reality of the situation. You talk about solutions but didn’t offer much of one. Want things to change, talk to the people running the SDHSAA, not bitching on a forum. Thank you for officiating baseball, as all sports are hurting in numbers but that has zero to do with your understanding of how a wrestling match should be called. We do have meetings at the beginning of every year to go over how we are going to call certain situations and to bounce around areas we can improve. Now if you had officiated wrestling you would know that it is impossible for every ref to call it the same every time based on how the rules are written and have been since organized wrestling began and it will still be happening a 100 years from now. Wrestlers and coaches are a crafty bunch and will find every possible way to use a rule to their advantage, toeing the line to the point we come up with another rule and the problem persists. It happens at the highest levels of the sport, it is a subjective sport by nature and will never be perfect, but I do agree that we can do better and should continue to strive for perfection. I would personally love to see more training offered for officials. The only officials that don’t care about getting every call right are the ones that don’t stick around for more than a year or two. In my own experience the calls that you know you got wrong but can’t change for one reason or another, eat at you for an extremely long period of time, don’t think for one second that everyone of those refs at the state tournament that reffed a match wanted to get any calls wrong. If you think that any of those guys that got something wrong over the last 3 days isn’t bothered by it right now doesn’t know those guys at all. EVERYONE OF THEM WANTS IT CALLED RIGHT, GUARANTEED!!!
Quote from Hank on February 27, 2022, 12:03 amThe reality here is no one is calling out an individual. No one is trying to get in some nonsense pissing match either. This thread has ended up on this forum every year at this time for at least 10 years that I know of. It is also understood that referees are human and mistakes happen and that no two calls are EXACTLY the same. It is also a given that every ref intends to make the right call and that they are all upset when they do blow a call. Again, I assume they are all great people. That still does not cover the fact that there is an issue or a flaw in the system. I also do not have all the answers, but in my time I have volunteered, I have coached, I have officiated I am a parent and I am human and I am entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours. The goal of a thread like this should be more about coming together to fix the problem…and by way more then just the 3 individuals that have commented thus far.
The reality here is no one is calling out an individual. No one is trying to get in some nonsense pissing match either. This thread has ended up on this forum every year at this time for at least 10 years that I know of. It is also understood that referees are human and mistakes happen and that no two calls are EXACTLY the same. It is also a given that every ref intends to make the right call and that they are all upset when they do blow a call. Again, I assume they are all great people. That still does not cover the fact that there is an issue or a flaw in the system. I also do not have all the answers, but in my time I have volunteered, I have coached, I have officiated I am a parent and I am human and I am entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours. The goal of a thread like this should be more about coming together to fix the problem…and by way more then just the 3 individuals that have commented thus far.
Quote from Jrocket on February 28, 2022, 10:27 amQuote from Ben Johnson on February 26, 2022, 5:54 pmHank and Jrocket have either of you officiated? You both sound like you know the fix to the problem. Every official in the state is sitting on the edge of their seat waiting to hear how you are going to make the job easier. Everyone loves to bash the people brave enough to step out there, but don’t have the guts to do it themselves. Imagine trying to give back to the sport you love, missing time from your spouse and kids most weekends for 3 months long with a couple days during the week, just to have someone without the courage to post their name telling you to do better. Either help fix what you perceive is a problem or stop complaining, because sitting back and bitching on a forum is not going to get anything done. The OOB consistency is impossible with how it is currently written on the high school side of things, if you had seen how it was written you would know that. You guys talk about training, sounds great, now you go ask the SDHSAA for the funds, or should the refs pay that out of pocket themselves. There was talk of trying to get an evaluator to try watching every official throughout the year, but again it comes back to man power and money, which isn’t something being thrown towards the sport of wrestling unfortunately. Lots of people like to complain but most don’t do anything but complain about it.
Lets start with, NO, I have not officiated. And, NO, I do not know how to fix the problem. And AGAIN, I never claim to know all the rules or think it is and easy job. AND, I also stated that I thought the refing was pretty good. So, that being said, let me rephrase the question so it is easier to understand. If I wanted to be a referee, what would I have to do? Do I simply read a book and go do it? Are there classes to take? Do I just follow another referee around to learn from? What is the process? I don't see consistency and wonder if it is because of how they are trained, or lack of training? I guess by the reading what you know of it, it is read a book and interpret it how you want to and go for it? I was simply trying to figure out the process. I will find an actual referee and ask more questions directly. Thank you for your input.
Quote from Ben Johnson on February 26, 2022, 5:54 pmHank and Jrocket have either of you officiated? You both sound like you know the fix to the problem. Every official in the state is sitting on the edge of their seat waiting to hear how you are going to make the job easier. Everyone loves to bash the people brave enough to step out there, but don’t have the guts to do it themselves. Imagine trying to give back to the sport you love, missing time from your spouse and kids most weekends for 3 months long with a couple days during the week, just to have someone without the courage to post their name telling you to do better. Either help fix what you perceive is a problem or stop complaining, because sitting back and bitching on a forum is not going to get anything done. The OOB consistency is impossible with how it is currently written on the high school side of things, if you had seen how it was written you would know that. You guys talk about training, sounds great, now you go ask the SDHSAA for the funds, or should the refs pay that out of pocket themselves. There was talk of trying to get an evaluator to try watching every official throughout the year, but again it comes back to man power and money, which isn’t something being thrown towards the sport of wrestling unfortunately. Lots of people like to complain but most don’t do anything but complain about it.
Lets start with, NO, I have not officiated. And, NO, I do not know how to fix the problem. And AGAIN, I never claim to know all the rules or think it is and easy job. AND, I also stated that I thought the refing was pretty good. So, that being said, let me rephrase the question so it is easier to understand. If I wanted to be a referee, what would I have to do? Do I simply read a book and go do it? Are there classes to take? Do I just follow another referee around to learn from? What is the process? I don't see consistency and wonder if it is because of how they are trained, or lack of training? I guess by the reading what you know of it, it is read a book and interpret it how you want to and go for it? I was simply trying to figure out the process. I will find an actual referee and ask more questions directly. Thank you for your input.
Quote from DSwartos on February 28, 2022, 11:01 amState officials all must be certified and they have to have been certified for at least three years. Being certified involves passing a closed book, supervised rules exam, attending a rules meeting, and attending a region meeting to cover rules changes from the previous year and points of emphasis for the current year. The officials for our tournament are selected based on recommendations from the wrestling coaches. If you believe you can be better than them and improve the sport, you are more than welcome to sign up and start officiating.
The out of bounds rule as written by the NFHS lends itself to inconsistency. We are working to improve that language. In the interim, there is a proposal that will be heard today at our advisory meeting use the college out of bounds rule, which is much more black and white. The issue with this is that #1 it adds a rules deviation from the NFHS, which prevents us from being at the table as they review changes to rules, and #2- most of our high school mats are not the collegiate size. Stalling has always been and will always be a subjective call. Our officials meet for a few hours prior to the tournament to review rules and attempt to be as consistent as possible. There's no sport in the world absent of subjectivity where everything is called exactly the same by any official who works. Would be great if possible, but its not possible. In the interim, we continuously work to make officiating the best it can be and are exploring an officials observation program, much like we have for football and basketball. We need funding for that and are getting there.
State officials all must be certified and they have to have been certified for at least three years. Being certified involves passing a closed book, supervised rules exam, attending a rules meeting, and attending a region meeting to cover rules changes from the previous year and points of emphasis for the current year. The officials for our tournament are selected based on recommendations from the wrestling coaches. If you believe you can be better than them and improve the sport, you are more than welcome to sign up and start officiating.
The out of bounds rule as written by the NFHS lends itself to inconsistency. We are working to improve that language. In the interim, there is a proposal that will be heard today at our advisory meeting use the college out of bounds rule, which is much more black and white. The issue with this is that #1 it adds a rules deviation from the NFHS, which prevents us from being at the table as they review changes to rules, and #2- most of our high school mats are not the collegiate size. Stalling has always been and will always be a subjective call. Our officials meet for a few hours prior to the tournament to review rules and attempt to be as consistent as possible. There's no sport in the world absent of subjectivity where everything is called exactly the same by any official who works. Would be great if possible, but its not possible. In the interim, we continuously work to make officiating the best it can be and are exploring an officials observation program, much like we have for football and basketball. We need funding for that and are getting there.
Quote from McCook on February 28, 2022, 11:15 amI officiate HS Football and there are times calls are tough to make by the rules in place. Everyone knows I will get after officials but in the end, I will never degrade them for a call. I have apologized when I was in the wrong later, and I have also had officials come to talk to me about a situation and they realized they might have made the wrong call. Those are very good officials who do this. We are all human and sometimes there are errors made. We need these officials and all of us including myself have to remember this. It is always easy to be in the stands and question a call, it hard to be the one out there making the Call! I found myself in this situation yesterday at my daughter's basketball games. I got mad but then calmed down and realized it did not cost her the game on a call or two.
Coach Scott Andal McCook Central/Montrose
I officiate HS Football and there are times calls are tough to make by the rules in place. Everyone knows I will get after officials but in the end, I will never degrade them for a call. I have apologized when I was in the wrong later, and I have also had officials come to talk to me about a situation and they realized they might have made the wrong call. Those are very good officials who do this. We are all human and sometimes there are errors made. We need these officials and all of us including myself have to remember this. It is always easy to be in the stands and question a call, it hard to be the one out there making the Call! I found myself in this situation yesterday at my daughter's basketball games. I got mad but then calmed down and realized it did not cost her the game on a call or two.
Coach Scott Andal McCook Central/Montrose
Quote from Fat125 on February 28, 2022, 12:00 pmI agree with the statement above that all officials want to make the right calls. Where I see the problem is that we have no oversight or evaluation of our officials. I think it is maybe the only sport that doesn't have a way to grade the officials. This shouldn't just be used to tear them down, but also to showcase good officiating as well. Coaches will always fight for their kid, and officials shouldn't have to be evaluated by 1 coach in 1 match when the coach is clearly biased. But we need to have an impartial person, maybe a retired official, go and watch matches for a day at some bigger tournament. Jot down some notes, what went well, what was missed. Was is judgement calls, do mechanics need to change. These are the things that I would like to see changed.
I agree with the statement above that all officials want to make the right calls. Where I see the problem is that we have no oversight or evaluation of our officials. I think it is maybe the only sport that doesn't have a way to grade the officials. This shouldn't just be used to tear them down, but also to showcase good officiating as well. Coaches will always fight for their kid, and officials shouldn't have to be evaluated by 1 coach in 1 match when the coach is clearly biased. But we need to have an impartial person, maybe a retired official, go and watch matches for a day at some bigger tournament. Jot down some notes, what went well, what was missed. Was is judgement calls, do mechanics need to change. These are the things that I would like to see changed.
Quote from Bigtown on February 28, 2022, 12:43 pmI watched a lot of matches this weekend and I was actually impressed with the reffing. Usually at the state tournament they go very far away from the way they call during the season with regards to stalling, riding on top, stalemates, and OOB close takedowns. I even saw more use of the second ref, well, depending who the one on the whistle was. When we go to state and regions, I expect the calls to remain the same as they were all year. I don't want them changed from the small town round robin doesn't mean anything night to how they would be called at state. Which is asking a lot, I know, they get as excited during the semis, and finals as anyone.
The ref's I personally know think about the calls they make, especially the close ones. Sometime they do miss calls, but no one ever says anything about all the correct calls they make. It's a tough job, not super rewarding, wish we had more of them.
What did happen to the evaluations that were supposed to have gone into effect? I'm betting it's more of a numbers game than anything, we are losing more than we are replacing. And the constant complaining, probably is no help.
The college OOB would work perfectly fine in most cases. Where it comes into play is when the tournament is laying out the mats with the circles next to each other, instead of using the blanks. Some college mats are bigger but the circle is also larger, so no real change. Mat edge is generally approximately 5' from the circle. Plenty of college matches are stopped due to a wrestler going off the edge.
A lot of rambling, but I wouldn't change much from how they do it. Except OOB.
I watched a lot of matches this weekend and I was actually impressed with the reffing. Usually at the state tournament they go very far away from the way they call during the season with regards to stalling, riding on top, stalemates, and OOB close takedowns. I even saw more use of the second ref, well, depending who the one on the whistle was. When we go to state and regions, I expect the calls to remain the same as they were all year. I don't want them changed from the small town round robin doesn't mean anything night to how they would be called at state. Which is asking a lot, I know, they get as excited during the semis, and finals as anyone.
The ref's I personally know think about the calls they make, especially the close ones. Sometime they do miss calls, but no one ever says anything about all the correct calls they make. It's a tough job, not super rewarding, wish we had more of them.
What did happen to the evaluations that were supposed to have gone into effect? I'm betting it's more of a numbers game than anything, we are losing more than we are replacing. And the constant complaining, probably is no help.
The college OOB would work perfectly fine in most cases. Where it comes into play is when the tournament is laying out the mats with the circles next to each other, instead of using the blanks. Some college mats are bigger but the circle is also larger, so no real change. Mat edge is generally approximately 5' from the circle. Plenty of college matches are stopped due to a wrestler going off the edge.
A lot of rambling, but I wouldn't change much from how they do it. Except OOB.
Quote from Ben Johnson on February 28, 2022, 12:47 pmQuote from DSwartos on February 28, 2022, 11:01 amState officials all must be certified and they have to have been certified for at least three years. Being certified involves passing a closed book, supervised rules exam, attending a rules meeting, and attending a region meeting to cover rules changes from the previous year and points of emphasis for the current year. The officials for our tournament are selected based on recommendations from the wrestling coaches. If you believe you can be better than them and improve the sport, you are more than welcome to sign up and start officiating.
The out of bounds rule as written by the NFHS lends itself to inconsistency. We are working to improve that language. In the interim, there is a proposal that will be heard today at our advisory meeting use the college out of bounds rule, which is much more black and white. The issue with this is that #1 it adds a rules deviation from the NFHS, which prevents us from being at the table as they review changes to rules, and #2- most of our high school mats are not the collegiate size. Stalling has always been and will always be a subjective call. Our officials meet for a few hours prior to the tournament to review rules and attempt to be as consistent as possible. There's no sport in the world absent of subjectivity where everything is called exactly the same by any official who works. Would be great if possible, but its not possible. In the interim, we continuously work to make officiating the best it can be and are exploring an officials observation program, much like we have for football and basketball. We need funding for that and are getting there.
Thank you Dan for providing some info on the process that officials go through. For the love of all that is holy, please push for the college out of bounds rules. With college and high school both having a minimum of a 5’ safety area outside the circle we should be able to pull it off. Officials, coaches, athletes and fans will be pleasantly surprised with how well guys figure out how to stay off the floor. My own personal observations from when college went to the new edge rules, is that hasn’t increased the number of times guys end up on the floor off the mat. Have seen high school mats at college opens and the results were the same.
Quote from DSwartos on February 28, 2022, 11:01 amState officials all must be certified and they have to have been certified for at least three years. Being certified involves passing a closed book, supervised rules exam, attending a rules meeting, and attending a region meeting to cover rules changes from the previous year and points of emphasis for the current year. The officials for our tournament are selected based on recommendations from the wrestling coaches. If you believe you can be better than them and improve the sport, you are more than welcome to sign up and start officiating.
The out of bounds rule as written by the NFHS lends itself to inconsistency. We are working to improve that language. In the interim, there is a proposal that will be heard today at our advisory meeting use the college out of bounds rule, which is much more black and white. The issue with this is that #1 it adds a rules deviation from the NFHS, which prevents us from being at the table as they review changes to rules, and #2- most of our high school mats are not the collegiate size. Stalling has always been and will always be a subjective call. Our officials meet for a few hours prior to the tournament to review rules and attempt to be as consistent as possible. There's no sport in the world absent of subjectivity where everything is called exactly the same by any official who works. Would be great if possible, but its not possible. In the interim, we continuously work to make officiating the best it can be and are exploring an officials observation program, much like we have for football and basketball. We need funding for that and are getting there.
Thank you Dan for providing some info on the process that officials go through. For the love of all that is holy, please push for the college out of bounds rules. With college and high school both having a minimum of a 5’ safety area outside the circle we should be able to pull it off. Officials, coaches, athletes and fans will be pleasantly surprised with how well guys figure out how to stay off the floor. My own personal observations from when college went to the new edge rules, is that hasn’t increased the number of times guys end up on the floor off the mat. Have seen high school mats at college opens and the results were the same.
Quote from Ben Johnson on February 28, 2022, 1:13 pmQuote from McCook on February 28, 2022, 11:15 amI officiate HS Football and there are times calls are tough to make by the rules in place. Everyone knows I will get after officials but in the end, I will never degrade them for a call. I have apologized when I was in the wrong later, and I have also had officials come to talk to me about a situation and they realized they might have made the wrong call. Those are very good officials who do this. We are all human and sometimes there are errors made. We need these officials and all of us including myself have to remember this. It is always easy to be in the stands and question a call, it hard to be the one out there making the Call! I found myself in this situation yesterday at my daughter's basketball games. I got mad but then calmed down and realized it did not cost her the game on a call or two.
Coach Scott Andal McCook Central/Montrose
You are a pleasure to see in the corner, although I do remember getting more than a couple knots in my stomach the first time I reffed one of your athletes and this wild man was bouncing around the corner. Intense but always respectful, which leads to good discussions away from the mat about why a call was made a certain way. Helps us both get better! I personally love it when coaches but more so when fans ask questions. We don’t learn if we don’t ask.
Quote from McCook on February 28, 2022, 11:15 amI officiate HS Football and there are times calls are tough to make by the rules in place. Everyone knows I will get after officials but in the end, I will never degrade them for a call. I have apologized when I was in the wrong later, and I have also had officials come to talk to me about a situation and they realized they might have made the wrong call. Those are very good officials who do this. We are all human and sometimes there are errors made. We need these officials and all of us including myself have to remember this. It is always easy to be in the stands and question a call, it hard to be the one out there making the Call! I found myself in this situation yesterday at my daughter's basketball games. I got mad but then calmed down and realized it did not cost her the game on a call or two.
Coach Scott Andal McCook Central/Montrose
You are a pleasure to see in the corner, although I do remember getting more than a couple knots in my stomach the first time I reffed one of your athletes and this wild man was bouncing around the corner. Intense but always respectful, which leads to good discussions away from the mat about why a call was made a certain way. Helps us both get better! I personally love it when coaches but more so when fans ask questions. We don’t learn if we don’t ask.
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