Brandon Valley
Quote from Fat125 on February 27, 2022, 10:32 pmCongratulations to Brandon Valley on their dual win and state record point total. However, their time in the spotlight, in my opinion, was overshadowed by their 4 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties in the championship dual. Let's not forget that last year they lost to Pierre in the semi-finals on an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty which was 1st tiebreak criteria.
Does anyone here think this is what our sport should look like? Swear words, headgear throws, taunting, flipping off the crowd, boxing? Almost every job I have gotten in my life, is because I was a wrestler. People hiring me have said how hard of a sport it is, and the dedication you have by being a part of a high school or college wrestling team. It makes you a valuable asset. I fear that the image of wrestling and wrestlers might be coming to a tipping point.
Let's get away from the meat head stereotype and get back to the hard working stereotype. It only takes a few rotten apples to ruin the bunch. We have a whole off season to keep working, and I hope everyone does better next year. It should be a low bar to raise.
Congratulations to Brandon Valley on their dual win and state record point total. However, their time in the spotlight, in my opinion, was overshadowed by their 4 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties in the championship dual. Let's not forget that last year they lost to Pierre in the semi-finals on an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty which was 1st tiebreak criteria.
Does anyone here think this is what our sport should look like? Swear words, headgear throws, taunting, flipping off the crowd, boxing? Almost every job I have gotten in my life, is because I was a wrestler. People hiring me have said how hard of a sport it is, and the dedication you have by being a part of a high school or college wrestling team. It makes you a valuable asset. I fear that the image of wrestling and wrestlers might be coming to a tipping point.
Let's get away from the meat head stereotype and get back to the hard working stereotype. It only takes a few rotten apples to ruin the bunch. We have a whole off season to keep working, and I hope everyone does better next year. It should be a low bar to raise.
Quote from Ice on February 27, 2022, 11:29 pmYou bring some great points to light and am not defending those actions in any way. But with everyone talking about it I think it’s good to look at from a different angle. 1. This dual was for a title with circumstances being very high. In this scenario emotions are running much higher. 2. I understand the highlight is on the wrestlers but as fans and spectators they need to do better about not saying things to the kids after matches to ridicule them. 3. The fake jabs thrown are not acceptable. But why was it ever brought to that. He didn’t walk out there and do that. The kid blatantly refused to wrestled and was rewarded for that. The reffing was awful. Never does a kid run around the mat chasing a kid, shot him off, then get called for stalling. I understand the reffing should not get to your head. But purposely making the exact opposite of the correct call baffles me. Lastly where do you drive the line with taunting. I watched plenty of kids besides Navarro hush the crowd and not get called. Also if that is why is the back flip not called. I am in favor of allowing both.I think letting the kids have a little fun with it is completely fine. Either way calls are not consistent as everyone has seen.
You bring some great points to light and am not defending those actions in any way. But with everyone talking about it I think it’s good to look at from a different angle. 1. This dual was for a title with circumstances being very high. In this scenario emotions are running much higher. 2. I understand the highlight is on the wrestlers but as fans and spectators they need to do better about not saying things to the kids after matches to ridicule them. 3. The fake jabs thrown are not acceptable. But why was it ever brought to that. He didn’t walk out there and do that. The kid blatantly refused to wrestled and was rewarded for that. The reffing was awful. Never does a kid run around the mat chasing a kid, shot him off, then get called for stalling. I understand the reffing should not get to your head. But purposely making the exact opposite of the correct call baffles me. Lastly where do you drive the line with taunting. I watched plenty of kids besides Navarro hush the crowd and not get called. Also if that is why is the back flip not called. I am in favor of allowing both.I think letting the kids have a little fun with it is completely fine. Either way calls are not consistent as everyone has seen.
Quote from Fat125 on February 28, 2022, 9:16 amQuote from Ice on February 27, 2022, 11:29 pmThe kid blatantly refused to wrestled and was rewarded for that. The reffing was awful. Never does a kid run around the mat chasing a kid, shot him off, then get called for stalling. I understand the reffing should not get to your head. But purposely making the exact opposite of the correct call baffles me.
I was with you until this statement. In my opinion, the Stevens kid was not running away and refusing to wrestle. The Brandon kid was just pushing to the edge of the mat and then taking a shot out of bounds with no hope of ever finishing it, because he was 5 feet out of bounds. That is also avoiding wrestling and clearly written in the rule book as stalling. If the Brandon kid really wanted to wrestle, he can stand in the middle of the mat, shoot in bounds, allow opponents to circle in to avoid out of bounds every 12 seconds. The ref did not have control of the mat and some issues stemmed from there, but I think he could have hit the Brandon kid for stalling more than just once. And to say it was the opposite call, is laughable. Now to be fair, it is stalling to back off the mat, but from watching this live, and watching it again online, I believe he was pushed out of bounds more times than he backed out of bounds on his own.
Rule 5-24 Article 3c - It is stalling in the neutral position when a wrestler prevents the opponent from returning to or remaining in bounds.
Rule 5-24 Article 3f - It is stalling in the neutral position when a wrestler pushes or pulls their opponent out of bounds.
Lastly, I think I mostly agree with you on letting kids celebrate especially a in a dual of this caliber. However, I also think there is a difference between interacting with your own fans, and interacting with opposing fans. There is never any reason to engage with a different teams fan base. When it happens, it will probably be called more times than not.
Quote from Ice on February 27, 2022, 11:29 pmThe kid blatantly refused to wrestled and was rewarded for that. The reffing was awful. Never does a kid run around the mat chasing a kid, shot him off, then get called for stalling. I understand the reffing should not get to your head. But purposely making the exact opposite of the correct call baffles me.
I was with you until this statement. In my opinion, the Stevens kid was not running away and refusing to wrestle. The Brandon kid was just pushing to the edge of the mat and then taking a shot out of bounds with no hope of ever finishing it, because he was 5 feet out of bounds. That is also avoiding wrestling and clearly written in the rule book as stalling. If the Brandon kid really wanted to wrestle, he can stand in the middle of the mat, shoot in bounds, allow opponents to circle in to avoid out of bounds every 12 seconds. The ref did not have control of the mat and some issues stemmed from there, but I think he could have hit the Brandon kid for stalling more than just once. And to say it was the opposite call, is laughable. Now to be fair, it is stalling to back off the mat, but from watching this live, and watching it again online, I believe he was pushed out of bounds more times than he backed out of bounds on his own.
Rule 5-24 Article 3c - It is stalling in the neutral position when a wrestler prevents the opponent from returning to or remaining in bounds.
Rule 5-24 Article 3f - It is stalling in the neutral position when a wrestler pushes or pulls their opponent out of bounds.
Lastly, I think I mostly agree with you on letting kids celebrate especially a in a dual of this caliber. However, I also think there is a difference between interacting with your own fans, and interacting with opposing fans. There is never any reason to engage with a different teams fan base. When it happens, it will probably be called more times than not.
Quote from Fishhook on February 28, 2022, 11:44 amBackflips are NOT taunting. Hushing signal blatantly to the the opposing crowd is blatantly taunting. No-one has mentioned the BV coach sticking his tongue out to the Stevens crowd….. the bearded guy….. maybe we shouldn’t be blaming the kids, they are only kids, their leadership set an example for them to follow.
Backflips are NOT taunting. Hushing signal blatantly to the the opposing crowd is blatantly taunting. No-one has mentioned the BV coach sticking his tongue out to the Stevens crowd….. the bearded guy….. maybe we shouldn’t be blaming the kids, they are only kids, their leadership set an example for them to follow.
Quote from Ice on February 28, 2022, 1:35 pmI can agree with pushing and pulling kids out of bounds as stalling. My point is the kid never moved forward or took a shot besides maybe one at the end. You can clearly hear his coaches yelling at him to stay in the center of the mat. So if the kid does zero moves, backs to the edge of the mat and stands there it’s not stalling. Sure he didn’t walk out on his own but he was shot out of bounds not pushed. Also if you want to say he pushed him to the edge then shot him out. The stevens kid didn’t make a real attempt at circling or hand fighting his was back in. To me that’s just not wrestling. That’s how I can’t see you saying it’s preventing and pushing; when the kid makes no attempt to get back in and was shot out. I guess I have always been a fan of constant action and hard wrestling where it’s clear to see a lot of people just aren’t quite on the same page. The first time it happened it was clear stalling he didn’t even get warned where as that should be an easy fleeing action and automatic 1 point. We should force kids to wrestle. We want kids to get better make them do something. Way to many 1-0, 2-1 matches that need the pace to be picked up from the start. I have no idea why refs are afraid to call stalling right away. If it’s stalling last 20 seconds it’s stalling in the first as well. I think we can make South Dakota wrestling much better than it is. We don’t produce near the number of college level kids and don’t do great on a national level. I don’t think it has anything to do with talent or potential but more with the culture of SD wrestling.
I can agree with pushing and pulling kids out of bounds as stalling. My point is the kid never moved forward or took a shot besides maybe one at the end. You can clearly hear his coaches yelling at him to stay in the center of the mat. So if the kid does zero moves, backs to the edge of the mat and stands there it’s not stalling. Sure he didn’t walk out on his own but he was shot out of bounds not pushed. Also if you want to say he pushed him to the edge then shot him out. The stevens kid didn’t make a real attempt at circling or hand fighting his was back in. To me that’s just not wrestling. That’s how I can’t see you saying it’s preventing and pushing; when the kid makes no attempt to get back in and was shot out. I guess I have always been a fan of constant action and hard wrestling where it’s clear to see a lot of people just aren’t quite on the same page. The first time it happened it was clear stalling he didn’t even get warned where as that should be an easy fleeing action and automatic 1 point. We should force kids to wrestle. We want kids to get better make them do something. Way to many 1-0, 2-1 matches that need the pace to be picked up from the start. I have no idea why refs are afraid to call stalling right away. If it’s stalling last 20 seconds it’s stalling in the first as well. I think we can make South Dakota wrestling much better than it is. We don’t produce near the number of college level kids and don’t do great on a national level. I don’t think it has anything to do with talent or potential but more with the culture of SD wrestling.
Quote from Rus Kantager on February 28, 2022, 2:59 pmQuote from Fishhook on February 28, 2022, 11:44 amBackflips are NOT taunting. Hushing signal blatantly to the the opposing crowd is blatantly taunting. No-one has mentioned the BV coach sticking his tongue out to the Stevens crowd….. the bearded guy….. maybe we shouldn’t be blaming the kids, they are only kids, their leadership set an example for them to follow.
I think the backflip in front of your opponent before you shake hands is taunting. I also think shushing the crowd is taunting. Personally enjoyed both and wouldn't have called either.
I think two things could have helped the situation.
1st - Don't put the teams under the opposing fans cheering sections. Emotions run high and fans can be brutal to these kids just getting off the mat.
2nd - The official needs to have more control. Hands to the face, showboating, stop the action warn them and if it happens again call it. Don't give it a chance to escalate. Also, the asst. coach should be on the bench and only head coach at scorers table for challenges. If its not the head coach tell them to have a seat.
Quote from Fishhook on February 28, 2022, 11:44 amBackflips are NOT taunting. Hushing signal blatantly to the the opposing crowd is blatantly taunting. No-one has mentioned the BV coach sticking his tongue out to the Stevens crowd….. the bearded guy….. maybe we shouldn’t be blaming the kids, they are only kids, their leadership set an example for them to follow.
I think the backflip in front of your opponent before you shake hands is taunting. I also think shushing the crowd is taunting. Personally enjoyed both and wouldn't have called either.
I think two things could have helped the situation.
1st - Don't put the teams under the opposing fans cheering sections. Emotions run high and fans can be brutal to these kids just getting off the mat.
2nd - The official needs to have more control. Hands to the face, showboating, stop the action warn them and if it happens again call it. Don't give it a chance to escalate. Also, the asst. coach should be on the bench and only head coach at scorers table for challenges. If its not the head coach tell them to have a seat.
Quote from fatmanroll on February 28, 2022, 3:05 pm220 Match
In the rules it states that overpowering is not grounds for stalling. There is an art to wrestling. In order to get stalling calls you must first do wrestling moves. Getting overly physical with clubs and pushing is not a wrestling move. If you recall the first couple takedowns. The BV wrestler took good shots and made his opponent move with wrestling moves. He was able to accumulate points at a very efficient pace. At the very least he could have secured a major decision or better. With continuing the use of wrestling moves, he could have even gotten his opponent stalled out. Once his anger gets out of control, he is no longer doing wrestling moves. He is hitting his opponent then driving him out of bounds with his shoulder in his chest.
I promise you, part of Stevens strategy in this particular match, the thought of suffering multiple stalling calls ran through the coaches brain as they have a close dual to win and very little chance of winning this particular match against a very accomplished wrestler.
I have a lot of respect for the Stevens wrestler for holding his own in the third period and keeping his cool. It was a very tough situation when you are clearly outmatched with an opponent that just wants to beat you up. I was embarrassed just being in the stands. I can't imagine living it on the mat. Let's make this clear that I did not feel this way at the 182 # bout where the BV wrestler rattled of what seemed like 25 take downs, great match btw! That is called wrestling moves.
With that being said, I was incredibly happy for the BV 220 lber for getting off the mat and out of sight of people... Nope, couldn't make it 10 more steps.
With the other happenings throughout the weekend and this dual specifically. I cannot help but feel as this behavior is a sign of a lack of leadership with parents laughing after getting ejected and coaches sticking their tongue out. Come on people, can we not act like adults?
220 Match
In the rules it states that overpowering is not grounds for stalling. There is an art to wrestling. In order to get stalling calls you must first do wrestling moves. Getting overly physical with clubs and pushing is not a wrestling move. If you recall the first couple takedowns. The BV wrestler took good shots and made his opponent move with wrestling moves. He was able to accumulate points at a very efficient pace. At the very least he could have secured a major decision or better. With continuing the use of wrestling moves, he could have even gotten his opponent stalled out. Once his anger gets out of control, he is no longer doing wrestling moves. He is hitting his opponent then driving him out of bounds with his shoulder in his chest.
I promise you, part of Stevens strategy in this particular match, the thought of suffering multiple stalling calls ran through the coaches brain as they have a close dual to win and very little chance of winning this particular match against a very accomplished wrestler.
I have a lot of respect for the Stevens wrestler for holding his own in the third period and keeping his cool. It was a very tough situation when you are clearly outmatched with an opponent that just wants to beat you up. I was embarrassed just being in the stands. I can't imagine living it on the mat. Let's make this clear that I did not feel this way at the 182 # bout where the BV wrestler rattled of what seemed like 25 take downs, great match btw! That is called wrestling moves.
With that being said, I was incredibly happy for the BV 220 lber for getting off the mat and out of sight of people... Nope, couldn't make it 10 more steps.
With the other happenings throughout the weekend and this dual specifically. I cannot help but feel as this behavior is a sign of a lack of leadership with parents laughing after getting ejected and coaches sticking their tongue out. Come on people, can we not act like adults?
Quote from CoachMike42 on February 28, 2022, 7:46 pmQuote from Fishhook on February 28, 2022, 11:44 amBackflips are NOT taunting. Hushing signal blatantly to the the opposing crowd is blatantly taunting. No-one has mentioned the BV coach sticking his tongue out to the Stevens crowd….. the bearded guy….. maybe we shouldn’t be blaming the kids, they are only kids, their leadership set an example for them to follow.
The Brandon Valley coach you are talking about is me. So I would like to take the time to address this. If anyone from Rapid City Stevens or any other schools felt offended or that I had any ill intentions towards them...I do not. I was not sticking my tongue out at the Stevens crowd. Brandon Valley fans were sitting right next to them, so after the dual, I was full of emotion and excitement, pumping up our crowd with my arms waving to bring the noise, then sticking my tongue out and rock out hands because Trevon Oehme did an amazing job closing out the dual. I have no ill will towards any coaches or wrestlers from RC Stevens. Was I emotional...absolutely! Was I pumped and heart racing a million miles a minute...absolutely! Did I taunt or stick my tongue out towards the parents and fans at Stevens intentionally their specific direction...sorry but no. But I do see how what I did in that situation in that direction bit me in the butt. I apologize that my actions could be looked at as distasteful, especially being in the position I was facing which looking back could have celebrated differently, and I apologize if anyone felt I was doing that! I have many friends from that school and relationships with a few of their coaches and wrestlers that wrestle on the same teams that my kid does in the summer. I know I can do better as a coach and am always progressing to be better for the kids and young men and women. I know some of you will not believe a word I say and take it as me making crappy excuses, which is unfortunate but I am just trying to explain my side and what my true intentions were. I will still try do my best and take any criticisms and apply them to make me a better person and coach! And I will still high five and hug Jack Schoenhard, Logan Graf, Coaches King Voorhees and Schoenhard. And I can't wait to see Landon and Max duke it out on the mat at 106 next year and cannot wait to see Stevens again in next year's final dual if it turns out that way. Much love to you all, sorry for all the craziness!
PS: I don't condone the crude or unsportsmanlike actions that my athletes or youth wrestlers do and I am just as sad about them and the team points being taken away. It should not come down to that. Emotions run high in this sport and we could all do better! I also agree that backflip by Graf was celebration....and it was a sick backflip too!
Quote from Fishhook on February 28, 2022, 11:44 amBackflips are NOT taunting. Hushing signal blatantly to the the opposing crowd is blatantly taunting. No-one has mentioned the BV coach sticking his tongue out to the Stevens crowd….. the bearded guy….. maybe we shouldn’t be blaming the kids, they are only kids, their leadership set an example for them to follow.
The Brandon Valley coach you are talking about is me. So I would like to take the time to address this. If anyone from Rapid City Stevens or any other schools felt offended or that I had any ill intentions towards them...I do not. I was not sticking my tongue out at the Stevens crowd. Brandon Valley fans were sitting right next to them, so after the dual, I was full of emotion and excitement, pumping up our crowd with my arms waving to bring the noise, then sticking my tongue out and rock out hands because Trevon Oehme did an amazing job closing out the dual. I have no ill will towards any coaches or wrestlers from RC Stevens. Was I emotional...absolutely! Was I pumped and heart racing a million miles a minute...absolutely! Did I taunt or stick my tongue out towards the parents and fans at Stevens intentionally their specific direction...sorry but no. But I do see how what I did in that situation in that direction bit me in the butt. I apologize that my actions could be looked at as distasteful, especially being in the position I was facing which looking back could have celebrated differently, and I apologize if anyone felt I was doing that! I have many friends from that school and relationships with a few of their coaches and wrestlers that wrestle on the same teams that my kid does in the summer. I know I can do better as a coach and am always progressing to be better for the kids and young men and women. I know some of you will not believe a word I say and take it as me making crappy excuses, which is unfortunate but I am just trying to explain my side and what my true intentions were. I will still try do my best and take any criticisms and apply them to make me a better person and coach! And I will still high five and hug Jack Schoenhard, Logan Graf, Coaches King Voorhees and Schoenhard. And I can't wait to see Landon and Max duke it out on the mat at 106 next year and cannot wait to see Stevens again in next year's final dual if it turns out that way. Much love to you all, sorry for all the craziness!
PS: I don't condone the crude or unsportsmanlike actions that my athletes or youth wrestlers do and I am just as sad about them and the team points being taken away. It should not come down to that. Emotions run high in this sport and we could all do better! I also agree that backflip by Graf was celebration....and it was a sick backflip too!
Quote from Sasquatch on February 28, 2022, 7:48 pmQuote from Ice on February 28, 2022, 1:35 pmWay to many 1-0, 2-1 matches that need the pace to be picked up from the start. I have no idea why refs are afraid to call stalling right away. If it’s stalling last 20 seconds it’s stalling in the first as well. I think we can make South Dakota wrestling much better than it is. We don’t produce near the number of college level kids and don’t do great on a national level. I don’t think it has anything to do with talent or potential but more with the culture of SD wrestling.
Many of these posts here after state are clearly emotions talking and this is one of the most absurb things so far. Did you see Gable on Grappler listing off SD wrestlers he had respect for and what he said about all the wrestling in SD? We do alright in other states national tournaments. We have a TON less people and think per capita can hold our own. We have kids that have been to many Disney, Des Moines, Denver, Virginia Beach, etc. and SD does pretty well. To say that not having a stall called the way you want creates an overall lack of culture is ridiculous. Take that advice back to your practice room and create the "Culture" you are proud of! I for one am proud of SD and thier wrestlers. Oh and for the record, Penn State vs. Iowa duals, 1/3 of the matches were close, 3-2, 2-0, 2-1, should called stalling more and created more CULTURE!!
Quote from Ice on February 28, 2022, 1:35 pmWay to many 1-0, 2-1 matches that need the pace to be picked up from the start. I have no idea why refs are afraid to call stalling right away. If it’s stalling last 20 seconds it’s stalling in the first as well. I think we can make South Dakota wrestling much better than it is. We don’t produce near the number of college level kids and don’t do great on a national level. I don’t think it has anything to do with talent or potential but more with the culture of SD wrestling.
Many of these posts here after state are clearly emotions talking and this is one of the most absurb things so far. Did you see Gable on Grappler listing off SD wrestlers he had respect for and what he said about all the wrestling in SD? We do alright in other states national tournaments. We have a TON less people and think per capita can hold our own. We have kids that have been to many Disney, Des Moines, Denver, Virginia Beach, etc. and SD does pretty well. To say that not having a stall called the way you want creates an overall lack of culture is ridiculous. Take that advice back to your practice room and create the "Culture" you are proud of! I for one am proud of SD and thier wrestlers. Oh and for the record, Penn State vs. Iowa duals, 1/3 of the matches were close, 3-2, 2-0, 2-1, should called stalling more and created more CULTURE!!
Quote from Ice on February 28, 2022, 11:39 pmYou would be correct in saying the high school wrestlers in SD are doing the same type of wrestling as Iowa vs penn state. You a clear supporter of of the mediocre wrestling that takes place. We have a handful of kids that do well out of the state. Not to mention most of those kids everyone hates anyways right? LOG is evil right? You say you are proud and I’m saying we can be way better. Why do we settle for this. I’m telling you people in other states don’t have the respect for us that you think they do. I understand numbers aren’t the same but why do we make that excuse for the way we do? And I also never said it had to everything with the stall call. Brandon has a national ranked team and arguably the one of the best teams to ever do it. But yet people don’t like that because it’s unfair, right. The culture comes from a lot of things. Why do kids see the same teams 5-10 times a year that’s ridiculous. There’s no reason Sioux Falls can’t get a 40 team tournament with a ton of out of state teams. People constantly degrade the teams that do best. I’m telling you we can be much better. I am not trying to say we are bad and everything is wrong. What I am saying is we have talent to do much better and truly show people what we are capable of.
You would be correct in saying the high school wrestlers in SD are doing the same type of wrestling as Iowa vs penn state. You a clear supporter of of the mediocre wrestling that takes place. We have a handful of kids that do well out of the state. Not to mention most of those kids everyone hates anyways right? LOG is evil right? You say you are proud and I’m saying we can be way better. Why do we settle for this. I’m telling you people in other states don’t have the respect for us that you think they do. I understand numbers aren’t the same but why do we make that excuse for the way we do? And I also never said it had to everything with the stall call. Brandon has a national ranked team and arguably the one of the best teams to ever do it. But yet people don’t like that because it’s unfair, right. The culture comes from a lot of things. Why do kids see the same teams 5-10 times a year that’s ridiculous. There’s no reason Sioux Falls can’t get a 40 team tournament with a ton of out of state teams. People constantly degrade the teams that do best. I’m telling you we can be much better. I am not trying to say we are bad and everything is wrong. What I am saying is we have talent to do much better and truly show people what we are capable of.
Quote from BHCF on March 1, 2022, 4:08 pmThe BV 220 commited an assault in that match and should have immediately been DQd. You don't need to make contact with someone to assault them -- a fake punch is all it takes if the victim is in fear of being struck, which the Stevens 220 obviously was. That kid needs some help with anger management or he's going to end up having a really difficult life.
The rest of it was just the high emotions that comes in a close dual like that.
The BV 220 commited an assault in that match and should have immediately been DQd. You don't need to make contact with someone to assault them -- a fake punch is all it takes if the victim is in fear of being struck, which the Stevens 220 obviously was. That kid needs some help with anger management or he's going to end up having a really difficult life.
The rest of it was just the high emotions that comes in a close dual like that.
Quote from Convoy on March 1, 2022, 7:41 pmQuote from CoachMike42 on February 28, 2022, 7:46 pmThe Brandon Valley coach you are talking about is me. So I would like to take the time to address this. If anyone from Rapid City Stevens or any other schools felt offended or that I had any ill intentions towards them...I do not. I was not sticking my tongue out at the Stevens crowd. Brandon Valley fans were sitting right next to them, so after the dual, I was full of emotion and excitement, pumping up our crowd with my arms waving to bring the noise, then sticking my tongue out and rock out hands because Trevon Oehme did an amazing job closing out the dual. I have no ill will towards any coaches or wrestlers from RC Stevens. Was I emotional...absolutely! Was I pumped and heart racing a million miles a minute...absolutely! Did I taunt or stick my tongue out towards the parents and fans at Stevens intentionally their specific direction...sorry but no. But I do see how what I did in that situation in that direction bit me in the butt. I apologize that my actions could be looked at as distasteful, especially being in the position I was facing which looking back could have celebrated differently, and I apologize if anyone felt I was doing that! I have many friends from that school and relationships with a few of their coaches and wrestlers that wrestle on the same teams that my kid does in the summer. I know I can do better as a coach and am always progressing to be better for the kids and young men and women. I know some of you will not believe a word I say and take it as me making crappy excuses, which is unfortunate but I am just trying to explain my side and what my true intentions were. I will still try do my best and take any criticisms and apply them to make me a better person and coach! And I will still high five and hug Jack Schoenhard, Logan Graf, Coaches King Voorhees and Schoenhard. And I can't wait to see Landon and Max duke it out on the mat at 106 next year and cannot wait to see Stevens again in next year's final dual if it turns out that way. Much love to you all, sorry for all the craziness!
PS: I don't condone the crude or unsportsmanlike actions that my athletes or youth wrestlers do and I am just as sad about them and the team points being taken away. It should not come down to that. Emotions run high in this sport and we could all do better! I also agree that backflip by Graf was celebration....and it was a sick backflip too!
Coach Mike,
It takes a big man to apologize for their actions and I commend you for that.
But..... your still the head of the ship, I have not been on the mat for over 40 years but if I would have acted like your 220 pounder the Ref's would not have had the option to DQ. My coach would have pulled me off the mat and forfeited the match .
I wrestled a Mitchell kid who acted the same way your 220 pounder did. The coach from Mitchell Bill Boggis physically came out on the mat and set his wrestler straight I got a lot of respect for that man.
My coach told the team back in 1977 "quote... Wrestling is not about being better than someone else it's about being better than you used to be!"
You have a dream team pulled together from different school systems, Open enrolment was not an option back in the day.
I know there will be a lot of LOG wrestlers and parents jump all over this post and say its a way to better your kids and that the kids have been together since grade school.
So my advice to you is, Take control of your team. Discipline the ones who don't show sportsmanship, and for the parents let them know as well this is your team and your using their kids, if they don't like the way you run the ship tell them to feel free to their original schools.
Quote from CoachMike42 on February 28, 2022, 7:46 pm
The Brandon Valley coach you are talking about is me. So I would like to take the time to address this. If anyone from Rapid City Stevens or any other schools felt offended or that I had any ill intentions towards them...I do not. I was not sticking my tongue out at the Stevens crowd. Brandon Valley fans were sitting right next to them, so after the dual, I was full of emotion and excitement, pumping up our crowd with my arms waving to bring the noise, then sticking my tongue out and rock out hands because Trevon Oehme did an amazing job closing out the dual. I have no ill will towards any coaches or wrestlers from RC Stevens. Was I emotional...absolutely! Was I pumped and heart racing a million miles a minute...absolutely! Did I taunt or stick my tongue out towards the parents and fans at Stevens intentionally their specific direction...sorry but no. But I do see how what I did in that situation in that direction bit me in the butt. I apologize that my actions could be looked at as distasteful, especially being in the position I was facing which looking back could have celebrated differently, and I apologize if anyone felt I was doing that! I have many friends from that school and relationships with a few of their coaches and wrestlers that wrestle on the same teams that my kid does in the summer. I know I can do better as a coach and am always progressing to be better for the kids and young men and women. I know some of you will not believe a word I say and take it as me making crappy excuses, which is unfortunate but I am just trying to explain my side and what my true intentions were. I will still try do my best and take any criticisms and apply them to make me a better person and coach! And I will still high five and hug Jack Schoenhard, Logan Graf, Coaches King Voorhees and Schoenhard. And I can't wait to see Landon and Max duke it out on the mat at 106 next year and cannot wait to see Stevens again in next year's final dual if it turns out that way. Much love to you all, sorry for all the craziness!
PS: I don't condone the crude or unsportsmanlike actions that my athletes or youth wrestlers do and I am just as sad about them and the team points being taken away. It should not come down to that. Emotions run high in this sport and we could all do better! I also agree that backflip by Graf was celebration....and it was a sick backflip too!
Coach Mike,
It takes a big man to apologize for their actions and I commend you for that.
But..... your still the head of the ship, I have not been on the mat for over 40 years but if I would have acted like your 220 pounder the Ref's would not have had the option to DQ. My coach would have pulled me off the mat and forfeited the match .
I wrestled a Mitchell kid who acted the same way your 220 pounder did. The coach from Mitchell Bill Boggis physically came out on the mat and set his wrestler straight I got a lot of respect for that man.
My coach told the team back in 1977 "quote... Wrestling is not about being better than someone else it's about being better than you used to be!"
You have a dream team pulled together from different school systems, Open enrolment was not an option back in the day.
I know there will be a lot of LOG wrestlers and parents jump all over this post and say its a way to better your kids and that the kids have been together since grade school.
So my advice to you is, Take control of your team. Discipline the ones who don't show sportsmanship, and for the parents let them know as well this is your team and your using their kids, if they don't like the way you run the ship tell them to feel free to their original schools.
Quote from Rus Kantager on March 2, 2022, 1:17 amQuote from Fat125 on February 27, 2022, 10:32 pmLet's not forget that last year they lost to Pierre in the semi-finals on an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty which was 1st tiebreak criteria.
This is a bit of a stretch. Give the GOVS the credit they deserve. That call happened early and Brandon had plenty of opportunities to win. Pierre wrestled a great dual! Don't blame the loss on one kid. He hit a hard cross face that was a subjective call by the official. It may not fit your narrative but its the truth.
Quote from Fat125 on February 27, 2022, 10:32 pmLet's not forget that last year they lost to Pierre in the semi-finals on an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty which was 1st tiebreak criteria.
This is a bit of a stretch. Give the GOVS the credit they deserve. That call happened early and Brandon had plenty of opportunities to win. Pierre wrestled a great dual! Don't blame the loss on one kid. He hit a hard cross face that was a subjective call by the official. It may not fit your narrative but its the truth.
Quote from GrapplerDad on March 2, 2022, 12:39 pmLet's talk about this "Dream Team" that Convoy referred to. The majority of the Brandon Valley Team that competed this weekend started in their youth program or moved there in Middle School or before:
106-T. Oehme- BV MatCats, 113-McGuire-BV MatCats, 120-Johnson-BV MatCats, 126-J. Oehme-BV MatCats, 132-T. Oehme-BV MatCats, 138-Mentzer-BV MatCats, 152-Langenhorst-Brookings/BV Middle School, 160-Bortnem-BV MatCats, 182-Tucker-BV MatCats, 195-D. Schunke-BV Middle School, 285-N. Schunke-Brandon Elementary. I watched almost everyone of these boys wrestle in a MatCats singlet when they were 4,5, and 6 years old and continued to watch them grow and develop as MatCats and seize the amazing opportunites to train with Metro and LOG locally. I've also seen them go to camps like JROB, Iowa, SDSU, and Northern. They have all committed to get better using the tools they have available and some are more committed than others. Just like in other wrestling rooms across the state. Just like on football fields and basketball courts across the state.
There are examples of wrestlers moving from other towns to find a wrestling room and teammates that will make them better because they want to wrestle after high school. Morgan Engbrecht to Sturgis, Jagger Tyler to Mitchell, Logan Graf to Stevens, Bollweg to Pierre, The Lake Andes Heavyweight to Winner, Fort Pierre kids to Pierre (Van Camp, Raske, Etc. they did grow up in the Pierre AAU program) I'm not faulting them for make those decisions. They and their families had their own reasons why they decided to find another room and it's their business not ours.
Yes, BV has three starters that did not wrestle or live in BV before they were in high school, but if you take those points away they still win the title on Friday and they are definitely still in the hunt on Saturday as two of those three lost against Stevens.
The main point of my post is to point out that most of these boys have been wrestling or competing in other sports wearing BV Black and Red since they were little. Saturday was not pretty for some of the wrestlers and some of the adults representing both teams, but give these young men the opportunity to learn from their mistakes and move on. That is what this time in their lives is for because in few short years they will no longer be kids.
Let's talk about this "Dream Team" that Convoy referred to. The majority of the Brandon Valley Team that competed this weekend started in their youth program or moved there in Middle School or before:
106-T. Oehme- BV MatCats, 113-McGuire-BV MatCats, 120-Johnson-BV MatCats, 126-J. Oehme-BV MatCats, 132-T. Oehme-BV MatCats, 138-Mentzer-BV MatCats, 152-Langenhorst-Brookings/BV Middle School, 160-Bortnem-BV MatCats, 182-Tucker-BV MatCats, 195-D. Schunke-BV Middle School, 285-N. Schunke-Brandon Elementary. I watched almost everyone of these boys wrestle in a MatCats singlet when they were 4,5, and 6 years old and continued to watch them grow and develop as MatCats and seize the amazing opportunites to train with Metro and LOG locally. I've also seen them go to camps like JROB, Iowa, SDSU, and Northern. They have all committed to get better using the tools they have available and some are more committed than others. Just like in other wrestling rooms across the state. Just like on football fields and basketball courts across the state.
There are examples of wrestlers moving from other towns to find a wrestling room and teammates that will make them better because they want to wrestle after high school. Morgan Engbrecht to Sturgis, Jagger Tyler to Mitchell, Logan Graf to Stevens, Bollweg to Pierre, The Lake Andes Heavyweight to Winner, Fort Pierre kids to Pierre (Van Camp, Raske, Etc. they did grow up in the Pierre AAU program) I'm not faulting them for make those decisions. They and their families had their own reasons why they decided to find another room and it's their business not ours.
Yes, BV has three starters that did not wrestle or live in BV before they were in high school, but if you take those points away they still win the title on Friday and they are definitely still in the hunt on Saturday as two of those three lost against Stevens.
The main point of my post is to point out that most of these boys have been wrestling or competing in other sports wearing BV Black and Red since they were little. Saturday was not pretty for some of the wrestlers and some of the adults representing both teams, but give these young men the opportunity to learn from their mistakes and move on. That is what this time in their lives is for because in few short years they will no longer be kids.
Quote from Sasquatch on March 2, 2022, 7:47 pmYa, Jagger Tyler moved to Mitchell because his dad changed jobs. I think the Kocer boys are pretty good coaches and they have alot of talent on that Wagner team, not sure of the huge draw for him to move to get a wrestling room or teammates to make him better. That example is a bit of a stretch.
Oh, and Owen won a state title with the coaches in Yankton right?
Ya, Jagger Tyler moved to Mitchell because his dad changed jobs. I think the Kocer boys are pretty good coaches and they have alot of talent on that Wagner team, not sure of the huge draw for him to move to get a wrestling room or teammates to make him better. That example is a bit of a stretch.
Oh, and Owen won a state title with the coaches in Yankton right?
Quote from Convoy on March 3, 2022, 11:24 amQuote from GrapplerDad on March 2, 2022, 12:39 pmLet's talk about this "Dream Team" that Convoy referred to. The majority of the Brandon Valley Team that competed this weekend started in their youth program or moved there in Middle School or before:
106-T. Oehme- BV MatCats, 113-McGuire-BV MatCats, 120-Johnson-BV MatCats, 126-J. Oehme-BV MatCats, 132-T. Oehme-BV MatCats, 138-Mentzer-BV MatCats, 152-Langenhorst-Brookings/BV Middle School, 160-Bortnem-BV MatCats, 182-Tucker-BV MatCats, 195-D. Schunke-BV Middle School, 285-N. Schunke-Brandon Elementary. I watched almost everyone of these boys wrestle in a MatCats singlet when they were 4,5, and 6 years old and continued to watch them grow and develop as MatCats and seize the amazing opportunites to train with Metro and LOG locally. I've also seen them go to camps like JROB, Iowa, SDSU, and Northern. They have all committed to get better using the tools they have available and some are more committed than others. Just like in other wrestling rooms across the state. Just like on football fields and basketball courts across the state.
There are examples of wrestlers moving from other towns to find a wrestling room and teammates that will make them better because they want to wrestle after high school. Morgan Engbrecht to Sturgis, Jagger Tyler to Mitchell, Logan Graf to Stevens, Bollweg to Pierre, The Lake Andes Heavyweight to Winner, Fort Pierre kids to Pierre (Van Camp, Raske, Etc. they did grow up in the Pierre AAU program) I'm not faulting them for make those decisions. They and their families had their own reasons why they decided to find another room and it's their business not ours.
Yes, BV has three starters that did not wrestle or live in BV before they were in high school, but if you take those points away they still win the title on Friday and they are definitely still in the hunt on Saturday as two of those three lost against Stevens.
The main point of my post is to point out that most of these boys have been wrestling or competing in other sports wearing BV Black and Red since they were little. Saturday was not pretty for some of the wrestlers and some of the adults representing both teams, but give these young men the opportunity to learn from their mistakes and move on. That is what this time in their lives is for because in few short years they will no longer be kids.
GrapplerDad,
Since you only have 1 post and did lots of research on the kids, I figure I will give you a chance to post some more.
since you posted 38-Mentzer-BV MatCats, here is what I found. Alex Mentzer Sioux Falls Lincoln (Open enroll to Brandon ). I'm going through AAU Stats More to follow on the others.
Quote from GrapplerDad on March 2, 2022, 12:39 pmLet's talk about this "Dream Team" that Convoy referred to. The majority of the Brandon Valley Team that competed this weekend started in their youth program or moved there in Middle School or before:
106-T. Oehme- BV MatCats, 113-McGuire-BV MatCats, 120-Johnson-BV MatCats, 126-J. Oehme-BV MatCats, 132-T. Oehme-BV MatCats, 138-Mentzer-BV MatCats, 152-Langenhorst-Brookings/BV Middle School, 160-Bortnem-BV MatCats, 182-Tucker-BV MatCats, 195-D. Schunke-BV Middle School, 285-N. Schunke-Brandon Elementary. I watched almost everyone of these boys wrestle in a MatCats singlet when they were 4,5, and 6 years old and continued to watch them grow and develop as MatCats and seize the amazing opportunites to train with Metro and LOG locally. I've also seen them go to camps like JROB, Iowa, SDSU, and Northern. They have all committed to get better using the tools they have available and some are more committed than others. Just like in other wrestling rooms across the state. Just like on football fields and basketball courts across the state.
There are examples of wrestlers moving from other towns to find a wrestling room and teammates that will make them better because they want to wrestle after high school. Morgan Engbrecht to Sturgis, Jagger Tyler to Mitchell, Logan Graf to Stevens, Bollweg to Pierre, The Lake Andes Heavyweight to Winner, Fort Pierre kids to Pierre (Van Camp, Raske, Etc. they did grow up in the Pierre AAU program) I'm not faulting them for make those decisions. They and their families had their own reasons why they decided to find another room and it's their business not ours.
Yes, BV has three starters that did not wrestle or live in BV before they were in high school, but if you take those points away they still win the title on Friday and they are definitely still in the hunt on Saturday as two of those three lost against Stevens.
The main point of my post is to point out that most of these boys have been wrestling or competing in other sports wearing BV Black and Red since they were little. Saturday was not pretty for some of the wrestlers and some of the adults representing both teams, but give these young men the opportunity to learn from their mistakes and move on. That is what this time in their lives is for because in few short years they will no longer be kids.
GrapplerDad,
Since you only have 1 post and did lots of research on the kids, I figure I will give you a chance to post some more.
since you posted 38-Mentzer-BV MatCats, here is what I found. Alex Mentzer Sioux Falls Lincoln (Open enroll to Brandon ). I'm going through AAU Stats More to follow on the others.
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Quote from Fat125 on March 3, 2022, 11:33 amI do believe Mentzer wrestled in AAU for Brandon, then went to Lincoln, then went back to Brandon.
I do believe Mentzer wrestled in AAU for Brandon, then went to Lincoln, then went back to Brandon.
Quote from interesting on March 3, 2022, 11:52 amQuote from Convoy on March 3, 2022, 11:38 amMentzer Wrestled Youth for Sioux Falls Midwest, then LOG
He was a BV Matcat for 4+ Years and wrestled at other places at the same time too. And his uncle (Todd) was a matcats coach and board member for many years.
Quote from Convoy on March 3, 2022, 11:38 amMentzer Wrestled Youth for Sioux Falls Midwest, then LOG
He was a BV Matcat for 4+ Years and wrestled at other places at the same time too. And his uncle (Todd) was a matcats coach and board member for many years.
Quote from Heard@theMovies on March 3, 2022, 12:23 pmQuote from BHCF on March 1, 2022, 4:08 pmThe BV 220 commited an assault in that match and should have immediately been DQd. You don't need to make contact with someone to assault them -- a fake punch is all it takes if the victim is in fear of being struck, which the Stevens 220 obviously was. That kid needs some help with anger management or he's going to end up having a really difficult life.
The rest of it was just the high emotions that comes in a close dual like that.
Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast.
Quote from BHCF on March 1, 2022, 4:08 pmThe BV 220 commited an assault in that match and should have immediately been DQd. You don't need to make contact with someone to assault them -- a fake punch is all it takes if the victim is in fear of being struck, which the Stevens 220 obviously was. That kid needs some help with anger management or he's going to end up having a really difficult life.
The rest of it was just the high emotions that comes in a close dual like that.
Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast.
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