120B
Quote from Dat Guy on February 19, 2023, 6:15 pmCan someone explain the seeds? Brozik loses 1 match all year to a class B opponent and gets seeded 4th? The winner of that mess is Gavin Braun imho.
Can someone explain the seeds? Brozik loses 1 match all year to a class B opponent and gets seeded 4th? The winner of that mess is Gavin Braun imho.
Quote from MadInvite on February 19, 2023, 8:52 pmPer criteria for state seeding:
b. After “Head-to-Head” and “common opponents” are evaluated, “Current Year, Region Place” shall be considered prior to other criteria.
So Lhotak had seeding criteria over the other 15 wrestlers in the weight class, so he got 15 seed points and became the #1 seed.
Geidd, Anderson, and Brozik had no seeding criteria over each other and they each had seeding criteria over everyone in the weight class besides Lhotak and thus were all tied with 13 seed points (I don't have administrative rights to get to look at the place in trackwrestling that assigns seed points, so I don't know exactly why they tied at 13, but those who seeded it can see how each seed point is earned). To break the tie, since there were no head-to-head and they were in a 3-way tie for common opponents, it went down to the next criteria where which was region place, and Brozik fell to 4th behind Geidd and Anderson who were both region champs.
The seed points method isn't perfect, as in this case where arguably the best two wrestlers are on the same side. In the old days of the draw, this case wouldn't happen because Lhotak and Brozik were 1st and 2nd out of the same region and would be automatically split.
Per criteria for state seeding:
b. After “Head-to-Head” and “common opponents” are evaluated, “Current Year, Region Place” shall be considered prior to other criteria.
So Lhotak had seeding criteria over the other 15 wrestlers in the weight class, so he got 15 seed points and became the #1 seed.
Geidd, Anderson, and Brozik had no seeding criteria over each other and they each had seeding criteria over everyone in the weight class besides Lhotak and thus were all tied with 13 seed points (I don't have administrative rights to get to look at the place in trackwrestling that assigns seed points, so I don't know exactly why they tied at 13, but those who seeded it can see how each seed point is earned). To break the tie, since there were no head-to-head and they were in a 3-way tie for common opponents, it went down to the next criteria where which was region place, and Brozik fell to 4th behind Geidd and Anderson who were both region champs.
The seed points method isn't perfect, as in this case where arguably the best two wrestlers are on the same side. In the old days of the draw, this case wouldn't happen because Lhotak and Brozik were 1st and 2nd out of the same region and would be automatically split.
Quote from Armbar on February 20, 2023, 9:25 amSo head to head is just adding somehow to seed points? For Example at 220B, 2 seed has win over 1 seed. In ND that is 1st criteria, it would be done and over right there.
So head to head is just adding somehow to seed points? For Example at 220B, 2 seed has win over 1 seed. In ND that is 1st criteria, it would be done and over right there.
Quote from chalk on February 20, 2023, 10:43 amIn looking at this it seems part of the problem is you have 3 wrestlers literally spread out over the state missing each other with the tournaments they traveled too, injury, and the fact that Giedd and Anderson both wrestled 120 and 126 played a part here for commons. Also, last year’s state placing did not come into play in the state seeding after commons, but it does in the region seeding. It comes before last year’s region place. It's a rare scenario, but it showed itself this year.
You can argue a kid got better the following year and placed at regions vs. not placing or placing at State the prior year (as in this case with Giedd getting 5th and Anderson DNP in 2022), but how much weight should we put on last year’s state place, before this year’s Region place? That’s how we got here and that’s the million dollar the question. Depending on which side your wrestler is on each year, you would defend that side. Especially considering Brozik was the champ last year.
This I think was part of the forfeiting over the years at Regions to make Regions more valuable I guess.
I agree with putting something in the Handbook to outline the state criteria. The handbook has not been completely updated recently noting the dual threshold of 10 listed in the power points (which is hard to find), but not in the handbook, as it still says 8?
In looking at this it seems part of the problem is you have 3 wrestlers literally spread out over the state missing each other with the tournaments they traveled too, injury, and the fact that Giedd and Anderson both wrestled 120 and 126 played a part here for commons. Also, last year’s state placing did not come into play in the state seeding after commons, but it does in the region seeding. It comes before last year’s region place. It's a rare scenario, but it showed itself this year.
You can argue a kid got better the following year and placed at regions vs. not placing or placing at State the prior year (as in this case with Giedd getting 5th and Anderson DNP in 2022), but how much weight should we put on last year’s state place, before this year’s Region place? That’s how we got here and that’s the million dollar the question. Depending on which side your wrestler is on each year, you would defend that side. Especially considering Brozik was the champ last year.
This I think was part of the forfeiting over the years at Regions to make Regions more valuable I guess.
I agree with putting something in the Handbook to outline the state criteria. The handbook has not been completely updated recently noting the dual threshold of 10 listed in the power points (which is hard to find), but not in the handbook, as it still says 8?
Quote from MadInvite on February 20, 2023, 2:26 pmQuote from Armbar on February 20, 2023, 9:25 amSo head to head is just adding somehow to seed points? For Example at 220B, 2 seed has win over 1 seed. In ND that is 1st criteria, it would be done and over right there.
220B - They wrestled twice and Wieman won the last time so Wieman is 1 and Shoenhard is 2. Simple as it is spelled out that way in the seeding criteria when head to head is evenly split at 1 win apiece or 2 apiece, then the seed goes to the most recent win.
Quote from Armbar on February 20, 2023, 9:25 amSo head to head is just adding somehow to seed points? For Example at 220B, 2 seed has win over 1 seed. In ND that is 1st criteria, it would be done and over right there.
220B - They wrestled twice and Wieman won the last time so Wieman is 1 and Shoenhard is 2. Simple as it is spelled out that way in the seeding criteria when head to head is evenly split at 1 win apiece or 2 apiece, then the seed goes to the most recent win.
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