Topic: Seeding the state tournaments

[rugged rick]

Like I posted yesterday, this comes up every year but I've never heard a good reason why they don't. It's not an absolute necessity to have state draws 2 hours after regionals are completed. Is wrestling that unimportant to the SDHAA that it's not worth the trouble?

I 'm not trying to incite a riot here, but would be very interested in a reason why this isn't done. It would be very easy to do, and the brackets could come out early in the week, with plenty of time for each wrestler to prep. for whoever his opponent may be.

Check out ND State tournaments on track wrestling. They seed the tournaments and are pretty darn accurate. The talent is well balanced throughout the brackets.

At very least there should be a true 2nd match, although, personally I would prefer seeding.

Isn't the ultimate goal to have the two best wrestlers in the championship? How many weight classes this year will have the 2 best wrestlers go head to head in the semi's?

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[The Rose]

Like I posted yesterday, this comes up every year but I've never heard a good reason why they don't. It's not an absolute necessity to have state draws 2 hours after regionals are completed. Is wrestling that unimportant to the SDHAA that it's not worth the trouble?I 'm not trying to incite a riot here, but would be very interested in a reason why this isn't done. It would be very easy to do, and the brackets could come out early in the week, with plenty of time for each wrestler to prep. for whoever his opponent may be.

Check out ND State tournaments on track wrestling. They seed the tournaments and are pretty darn accurate. The talent is well balanced throughout the brackets.

At very least there should be a true 2nd match, although, personally I would prefer seeding.

Isn't the ultimate goal to have the two best wrestlers in the championship? How many weight classes this year will have the 2 best wrestlers go head to head in the semi's?

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

X-2

The sdhsaa is more concerned about a AAA football, basketball etc... than wrestling.

Lets see??? We have...  AAA, AA, A , B, 11 Man, and 9 Man football.. It's getting a little watered down in my opinion. I guess someone thought we needed more teams winning a state championship.     jmo

[nowhiners]

what state are you talking rose? and the problem is that in today's world, society wants to eliminate losing. They try to use excuses of making things "fair." At least california does one thing right. They have how many more people than our state does, yet they only have one wrestling class? Sorry, got on a little bit of a rant.

[The Rose]

Agreed!... I'm not complaining about the A, and B platform for SD, but I would like to see the true #1, 2, 3, etc ... State Placer in each weight class rather than someone win by the luck of the draw. jmo 

[nowhiners]

Yeah, I got a little off tangent. what state are you from that has 8 man football?

[The Rose]

Oops!!! Sorry .... 9 Man ....two fat of fingers...

[nowhiners]

You're fine, I was just confused.

[sdjetsfan]

If they seed the state basketball tournaments, which I believe they do, then they should be seeding the state wrestling tournaments.

[Dead Weight]

It makes completely no sense why they wouldn't do this, as every other single sport gets seeded.

[samdog77]

I am not against seeding the state tournament, but how do you make that fair?  When someone from the northeast, southeast and west part of the state have never wrestled but all are outstanding kids and have nearly identical records?  Then it basically would come down to a popularity contest....   Also who determines the seeds?   I think that there are too many faults with seeding.  That is the reason I lean towards the way it is.  If you are going to win the tournament and be state champion, you have to beat everyone in your way.  Plain and simple.

[oldntired]

Frankly as a fan it's sad.  Samdog, most have wrestled by age 12, we all know who is who and what a lucky draw vs a rough draw looks like.

[hacky 22]

I am not against seeding the state tournament, but how do you make that fair?  When someone from the northeast, southeast and west part of the state have never wrestled but all are outstanding kids and have nearly identical records?  Then it basically would come down to a popularity contest....   Also who determines the seeds?   I think that there are too many faults with seeding.  That is the reason I lean towards the way it is.  If you are going to win the tournament and be state champion, you have to beat everyone in your way.  Plain and simple.

You would use criteria just like you do for every other tournament.

[rugged rick]

I am not against seeding the state tournament, but how do you make that fair?  When someone from the northeast, southeast and west part of the state have never wrestled but all are outstanding kids and have nearly identical records?  Then it basically would come down to a popularity contest....   Also who determines the seeds?   I think that there are too many faults with seeding.  That is the reason I lean towards the way it is.  If you are going to win the tournament and be state champion, you have to beat everyone in your way.  Plain and simple.

You would use criteria just like you do for every other tournament.

bingo!!!

it wouldn't even be a problem. In the time since I posted this, we could've seeded 10 state tournaments.

[planbe]

Below is the seeding system that North Dakota uses.  If you look at their brackets (historically) they have the top four wrestlers in the semis a very high percentage of the time in the brackets.  There are always the wildcards that come out during the tournament, but for the most part the seeding works correctly.  Further, if you actually work through all of the criteria while a couple of coaches are trying to figure out whether Johnny or Billy should have the higher seed, nobody will be slighted in a popularity contest.  It will either be decided by the criteria, or it is far enough down the criteria food chain where it likely would not have mattered anyway.  There is a coaches meeting the weekend prior to the tournament where a committee works out the seeds.

**In this years (2012) ND A State Tourney that got over yesterday 10 of the 14 weight classes had the 1-4 seeds in the semis.  In the others that didn't three 6 seeds and 2 five seeds snuck in.  In those weight classes the number 1 seeds won 2 of the four and a 4 seed and 5 seed won the other two. 

CRITERIA FOR SEEDING  STATE TOURNAMENT

1.  HEAD TO HEAD COMPETITION.  THE WRESTLER WITH THE BEST RECORD
     HEAD TO HEAD RECEIVES THE HIGHER SEED.  IF THREE OR MORE WRESTLERS HAVE SPLIT       
     AND A SEED CANNOT BE DETERMINED USING THIS CRITERIA CONTINUE DOWN THE LIST.
2.  RECORD AGAINST COMMON OPPONENTS. (must be common to all wrestlers being considered)
3.  RETURNING STATE CHAMPION IN THE SAME WEIGHT CLASS WILL BE GIVEN THE SEED.
4.  RETURNING STATE RUNNER-UP IN THE SAME WEIGHT CLASS WILL BE GIVEN THE SEED.
5.  RETURNING STATE PLACE WINNER IN ANY WEIGHT CLASS WILL BE GIVEN THE SEED. THE       COMMITTEE WILL TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE PLACE, AND WEIGHT CLASS, IN DETERMINING THE SEED.
6.  VICTORIES OVER ACKNOWLEDGED STRONG OPPONENTS.
7.  ADVANCING AS A REGION CHAMPION SHALL DETERMINE THE SEED.
8.  ADVANCING AS A REGION RUNNER-UP SHALL DETERMINE THE SEED.
9.  THE BEST OVER-ALL RECORD SHALL DETERMINE THE SEED.
10. A POLL OF THE COMMITTEE SHALL DETERMINE THE SEED.


ANYTIME YOU HAVE MORE THAN TWO WRESTLERS UNDER CONSIDERATION
FOR A SEED YOU WILL CONTINUE DOWN THE LIST UNTIL THE SEED IS DETERMINED.  ONCE THAT SEED IS DETERMINED YOU BEGIN AT NUMBER ONE AGAIN WITH THE REMAINING WRESTLERS TO DETERMINE THE NEXT SEED.


Information required for seeding:

1.  4 copies of each qualifying wrestler’s stat book with the results of each match he wrestled.
A.   This may be a copy of the Stats book itself.
B.   This may be a printout from a stats program on a computer

2.   All losses highlighted
3.   A list of important wins on the bottom of the page
4.   Expected seed for wrestler
5.  If this information isn’t provided the wrestler will not be considered for a seed.

[samdog77]

I first want to clarify that my main concern was that partiallity be take out of the equation.  Second, these ND criteria seem to be pretty well thought out.  My only concern would criteria #6 could be interpretted differently by different people.  In the end...I could support this type of seeding.  Thanks for providing the criteria planbe.