Author Topic: EDC question  (Read 6217 times)

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maxsdad

Re: EDC question
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2012, 03:23:55 AM »
This sure seems like a situation where it would be nice to see the right thing done and let this kid wrestle. The NDHSAA showed some wiggle room with other decisions made at the EDC. (I think it's unfair that the late kid was allowed to wrestle, but at least it was decided on the mat by the wrestlers) Wouldn't it make sense, if all the facts as stated on here and the news report are true, to put this wrestler in the spot that was given to the WF un-attached wrestler. By records and his probable finish at the EDC, it would seem like a likely slot that he would have ended up at. I hope the courts will intervene and force the NDHSAA to allow him in and to install some form of an appeals process for all activities. Either way, I'm happy his dad is fighting the good fight for his kid.
.

Stan Rothenstein

Re: EDC question
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2012, 10:11:48 AM »
The best evidence thus far for Sean's side, is a forensic pathologist saying it was not a bite. 
his oponent went up and down with his teeth on my sons arm like it was a corn cob.

WrestlingMomof5

Re: EDC question
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2012, 01:48:02 PM »
RE: Sean Murphy and everything that happened that day....

As I scroll through and read all that has been posted.  My understanding is that obviously some have been affected by the injustice of it all or some don't have the full picture or have not or ever had anything like this happen to themselves or someone close to them.

If any of you know Sean, you know he is a kid of character, honor, respect, and a drive to be that as a wrestler as well.  I've seen him develop as a wrestler from a 5 year old to now a sophmore in highschool.  He loves the sport.  Even if he wasn't winning the match, Sean is a kid that would not bite.  So where is the logic in this.  He's winning first of all and biting costs you the event your in and the next event coming.  WHY WOULD HE BITE!

And Please know that the booing that occurred was after everything that happened that day, it was our frustration outlet at the whole situation.  It was not a good sportsmanship behavior, and Mr. Murphy was not pleased with the few of us that did it because thats just the type of man he is and has taught his kids as well.  And yes I know the sayting "Two wrongs don't make a right"  BUT we did not use profanity, or get hostile, or flip him off, or threaten.  It was a very minimal response of our disbelief of the event and disappointment in the outcome and the rest of the things that occurred.  I would say booing is a way most people choose to show that they are not pleased with something wrong that has been done and it is the reaction we chose to use, maybe not the most mature for an adult, but we are definitely affected by this whole situation.  I wish all of you could have seen Sean when he came up in the stands that day and sat down by his mom.  And I wish you all could see his face when they tell Sean that he isn't going to be able to wrestle at the State Tournament after all.

As lessons to be learned by all this and get on with life as one person stated....

Lets see, does he learn "win at any cost" a sense of bad wins over good?  That you get punished for something you didn't do?  These things happen all too much in life as we look at what goes on in the world today.  I know there is a God!  And in life we have the opportunity to learn from life and try to be a better person from it.  BUT we have to allow God to work in our lives.  So if the people that allowed this to play out as it has, allow themselves to humble a bit, knock a piece off of that chip on their shoulder, and tear a chunk out of the "not so good pride" that we all can have, then maybe lessons can be learned and then these people will have the decency and honor and integrity and character to then apologize to Sean.  At this point, it doesn't look like it's going to help Sean get into the State Tournament, which is very sad, BUT THEN ATLEAST Sean can know that eventually people can do the right thing (ADULTS especially in this case) SOMETIMES AT THE COST OF A KID'S DREAM AND LOVE FOR SOMETHING THAT DRIVES HIM TO STICK WITH IT AND BE THE BEST HE CAN BE.   I know I will be a part of trying to get some things changed with the NDHSAA so this doesn't happen to another athlete who is wrongly accused and innocent!  If you feel the same please go to your next High School Board Meeting and start things to get changed to where there can be some kind of recourse or appeal process. 


minotman58701

Re: EDC question
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2012, 02:03:07 PM »
i just wanna ask one question earlier in the year sean was out with a hand injury or wrist injury, how did he get that injury?
  the kid of character punched a door after a wrestling match

why would he do that?

nuff said, its over, move on

Big_Dog

Re: EDC question
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2012, 02:51:12 PM »
Sean achieved a boxers fracture in his hand on the 11th of November 2011 in practice.  He and his partner were wrestling along the wall in the room and he took a shot and hit the wall at an odd angle.  He finished practice and then wrestled in practice the next morning.  After practice the next  morning, it wasn't too bad, but when we were watching the OSU football game, our traditional high five routine really got it hurting.  After the game, his hand was smarting and he went to Altru and it was indeed broken.

First wrestling of the season was at the Sertoma tournament. 

So, for the poster from Minot, this kid of character did not hit the door, sorry about bursting your bubble on that one.  Go talk with Coach Moe or Coach Richter on that one.

As for State, it doesn't look like it will happen for him unless NDHSAA makes a last minute change in their ruling. 

Live by white and black but die by shades of gray - Robert Early Keen

freestylefan

Re: EDC question
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2012, 04:39:46 PM »
This sure seems like a situation where it would be nice to see the right thing done and let this kid wrestle. The NDHSAA showed some wiggle room with other decisions made at the EDC. (I think it's unfair that the late kid was allowed to wrestle, but at least it was decided on the mat by the wrestlers) Wouldn't it make sense, if all the facts as stated on here and the news report are true, to put this wrestler in the spot that was given to the WF un-attached wrestler. By records and his probable finish at the EDC, it would seem like a likely slot that he would have ended up at. I hope the courts will intervene and force the NDHSAA to allow him in and to install some form of an appeals process for all activities. Either way, I'm happy his dad is fighting the good fight for his kid.

 I thought there was only eight people in the bracket. How does a kid get put into the state tournement with out being in the weightclass at the EDC. Allowing that to me is worse than not letting a kid that was there wrestle at state based on a bad call.
 We had a kid get bit once with very clear top and bottom teath marks. Ref said I did not witness the bite so I cant throw him out. Are North Dakota rules different than Minnesota?

JordanJesse

Re: EDC question
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2012, 05:23:33 PM »
Freestylefan,  the way it works if they are only 8 kids in the Regional tourney and one gets sick or hurt before state, they take the top place kid from the Regional JV tourney to fill the bracket at state so that there are no Byes in the first round.   Same thing must have been done for replacement at 120, they took the kid that got 1st in the JV portion.   

armbar

Re: EDC question
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2012, 05:54:47 PM »
Here is the Clip and Article from the news tonight.

http://www.wdaz.com/event/article/id/12279/group/homepage/

If you look really close at his arm it loods to me like a top and bottom row of marks??  The ref made the call based on the evidence he had, LIVE WITH IT.

LAWSUIT???  Give me a break, what are you teaching your kids?  Even if he didn't intentioally bite him, the ref made the call, and he felt it was the right call based on the evidence!  LIVE WITH IT!! 

COURTS REALLY!!  TV NEWS.... COME'ON MAN  as CC would say
You'll never get pinned if you never go to your back!

RED RIDER

Re: EDC question
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2012, 07:07:23 PM »
A lawsuit does seem extreme, but at what point do you stand up for what is right?

If your kids happens to be one of those goofballs who likes to dye their hair stupid colors or some other such thing, and they step out on to the mat/court/field and the official says "I don't like that, you are disqualified" as it stands right now there is nothing you can do about that.  No matter how wonderful that kid happens to be, how great an athlete, how dedicated, etc.  Is this America or what?

What they are talking about is not so much a "lawsuit" as a change in the NDHSAA regulations that would give you some recourse in such a case.

Does the NDHSAA or the referees associations have some strange and wonderful powers that makes them infallible?  Are we not to dare question a decison made by them? I did not know that.

If this were just any old match: you lose the match and move on, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal. But Sean has been disqualified from the Region and State for something he would never do.  An injustice has been done. 

Armbar--Did you "really look closely" at Dillon's arm?  Are you an authority on bites?  Anyone who has ever had a toddler can tell you that it is never a straight scratch and rarely draws blood.  WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE TO BITING A GUY YOU ARE BEATING 8-2 WITH LIKE 30 SECONDS LEFT THE THE 3RD PERIOD?  Have you ever crossfaced the crap out of your opponent when you are behind and running out of time, knowing you really almost can't win this match?  Did you have some marks on your arm afterward?  Should the guy have been disqualifed because you chose to use the crossface?

The Murphy's have expressed concern that those of us attending the State Tournament remember to be respectful of our opponents and not let this color our behavior.  I was somewhat insulted that they felt the need to remind us to be mature, but since there will be people in attendance with attitudes like yours I guess it is a good reminder to restrain oursleves.
As iron sharpens iron, so man sharpens his fellow man.  Proverbs 27:17

Big_Dog

Re: EDC question
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2012, 09:11:25 PM »
I never said the word lawsuit.  Legal action or for the court to decide was if an injunction could be issued.  That is not a law suit and is significantly different.  People are truly lost if they think this is a law suit. 

An injunction was possible  if there was more time and several good attorneys in the Grand Forks/Bismarck area thought so, but also thought it takes time to put things together.  At the end of the day, it was only to get an injunction, not a law suit.

The major emphasis is to alter NDHSAA rules to this doesn't happen to other student athletes in any sport.  There should be an appeal process in place for any disqualification.  Ideally initiated by the school system for whom the athlete competes.  This takes the parents out of the situation.  Right now, as it stands today, there is not process.  Below is what was copied from Mr. Fetsch's e-mail to me.  This is what we need to focus on as there will be no state this year for Sean.  He is not happy with it, but accepts that as part of the system.  All I am saying is let's fix the system.  We can do that by working together.  See TORNADO93's post earlier in the thread as repyl #22.  Was this fair for this football player?  No it was not fair at all.

From Mr. Fetsch's e-mail:

The penalty for flagrant misconduct penalties in wrestling is addressed in the NDHSAA By-Law’s and Constitution, PART II, Article XIV, Section XIII:

“Any student or coach ejected from an interscholastic contest by game officials for unsportsmanlike conduct, including but not limited to flagrant, violent or verbal misconduct, will be ineligible for the next regularly scheduled game/meet at that level of competition…”

The NDHSAA By-Law’s and Constitution also address the due process procedure in PART II, Article VI, Section II:

 “…a protest is not allowed by the NDHSAA when it is based on judgment decisions of officials or misinterpretation or misapplication of playing rules, no investigation which affects the outcome of a contest or the disqualification of players, coaches and other bench personnel shall be conducted into the decisions of contest officials.” 

 

 
Live by white and black but die by shades of gray - Robert Early Keen

Piglet

Re: EDC question
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2012, 01:12:17 AM »
I was not there, so take it with a grain of salt but I have seen some of the poor officiating in the eastern part of the state this year. As a former wrestler, former official, current fan and parent I know a little about all sides of the sport. There are some very good officials but I have also seen some of the most inconsistent and poor officiating that I have seen in Long time. Fargo Davies duals and the Lisbon tourney come to the top of my head. Looks like the edc tourney fits in as well. I have even heard some rumblings that the tournament  manager/athletic director as much as admitted he had no clue about wrestling. Hardly seems right in such an important event. Sad state of affairs.

Static Re volts Lightning

Re: EDC question
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2012, 01:30:28 AM »
There was a biting incident on a cross face aplied by my son, he actually had the hands locked to put on the craddle.  I didn't see it, neither did the referee. I only wondered why he let the craddle go.  He didn't say anything to the ref. but afterwords he showed me the bite marks.  Latter we watched the tape, plain as day, his oponent went up and down with his teeth on my sons arm like it was a corn cob. This came from a wrestler you'd never expect it from........

GFm

Re: EDC question
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2012, 02:31:23 AM »
Here is the Clip and Article from the news tonight.

http://www.wdaz.com/event/article/id/12279/group/homepage/

If you look really close at his arm it loods to me like a top and bottom row of marks??  The ref made the call based on the evidence he had, LIVE WITH IT.


Keep in mind that image is a video recording of a photograph, quality is significantly degraded.


saladdodger19

Re: EDC question
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2012, 03:55:51 AM »

If your kids happens to be one of those goofballs who likes to dye their hair stupid colors or some other such thing, and they step out on to the mat/court/field and the official says "I don't like that, you are disqualified" as it stands right now there is nothing you can do about that.  No matter how wonderful that kid happens to be, how great an athlete, how dedicated, etc.  Is this America or what?
If this were just any old match: you lose the match and move on, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal. But Sean has been disqualified from the Region and State for something he would never do.  An injustice has been done. 

Armbar--Did you "really look closely" at Dillon's arm?  Are you an authority on bites?  Anyone who has ever had a toddler can tell you that it is never a straight scratch and rarely draws blood.  WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE TO BITING A GUY YOU ARE BEATING 8-2 WITH LIKE 30 SECONDS LEFT THE THE 3RD PERIOD?  Have you ever crossfaced the crap out of your opponent when you are behind and running out of time, knowing you really almost can't win this match?  Did you have some marks on your arm afterward?  Should the guy have been disqualifed because you chose to use the crossface?

I wasn't there, and I don't know the full story from either side.  However, what does this being America have to do with anything?  Also, comparing dying your hair "stupid colors" to this situation is a weak argument at best.  My other question is, have you ever been crossfaced and had the other kid's arm in your mouth?  I don't care what Sean's morals are, a natural reaction could possibly be to bite.  I'm not saying he did or didn't.  I just think these are some weak arguments.

RED RIDER

Re: EDC question
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2012, 05:25:33 AM »
The "dying your hair stupid colors are some such thing" was meant to be kind of a ridiculous example that would obviously never happen; just like obviously Sean would never be disqualified for biting someone...oh wait, that did happen...AND HERE IS THE POINT...there is no appeal process! 
As iron sharpens iron, so man sharpens his fellow man.  Proverbs 27:17