Topic: EDC question

[GFm]

What's a message board for, if not to discuss.  I don't think anyone tried to ridicule the referee, saying he made a bad call isn't ridicule.
I sometimes smile when I hear people say how dediated these guys are, of course they are, no question about it. 
I am the first to admit I'm not qualified to judge any of these guyes, however it is still my right to do so.
 
So, who makes more per hour a referee, a coach, or an amatuer athlete?  Who is more dedicated a ref, a coach, or an amatuer athlete?

<Patriotic music starts>
Hey if Mr. Murphy decides to take action, why do you think that is a bad thing.   Rule changes are made based on events all the time, why not show the young man that it's ok to stand up and fight for change.  That is a good thing.  It probably isn't going to help Sean's get to state, but maybe it will help your sons in the future.  That's America folks, can't change injustice by accepting it, must fight!
</Patriotic must stops>   

[fadedglory]

Wrestlingfam,

You keep saying how these refs are "dedicating" their weekends and "giving" their time. The last I checked the officials are always paid in NDHSAA events. Some might even call it their job--is it okay for a grown adult to shirk their duties at a "job" and not be held accountable?

Now I know this is high school sports, but as has been stated, Sean does deserve to go to state. There is no arguing that.

I am not personally attacking Scott Braun; I am very much so aware of the fact that miscalls happen. I also am aware that calls are rarely reversed--for good reason, as officials need to be relied upon for consistent and confident match-calling. Having Scott Braun admit the mistake is no longer what would fix the situation; this becomes an issue for the NDHSAA.

Also, Wrestlingfam, please don't act as if no one here grew up in a wrestling family. Anyone on this site who is NOT passionate about ND/SD wrestling, is lost.

It is always easy to blame someone else, but I have to say, being a wrestling family for almost 40 years, the referees know this sport, have an intense dedication and love for this sport and are only on the side of sportsmanship.  So, get over it, move on and act like any classy wrestler and wrestling fan would do, sit in the stands are cheer on your teammates and fellow friends and wrestlers.  You are the only one who knows your intentions and if there is anything that this sport should show you is that you make your own destiny by your dedication and your actions, so by all means, be thankful that you have refs who take their weekends and dedicate them to your sport and your families!

Whom should be blamed for this DQ then?
My intentions are to spread awareness of what exactly is going on, or rather went on.
Again, the referees are paid, I find it hard to feel bad in this situation.
And lastly, where has Sean's dedication gotten him? Was his destiny to miss out on a state tournament, one in which he would have only NOT qualified for if in fact he was DQ'd? I hardly believe it is.

[Little Paulie]

Inappropriate to bring the refs name into it to just to call him out on a website when he can't reverse his call even if he wanted to right now. Inappropriate to talk crap about either wrestler as they are just kids (Specifically identifying Finch wasn't needed).  It is a tragedy that Sean doesn't get to wrestle.  I don't see this getting resolved in a way that is satisfactory to anyone with the limited amount of time between tournaments.  I'm not sure if the bylaws would even permit it because I don't believe the call can be reversed so the rules state he has to sit out of the tournament.  The ref wasn't "shirking" his duties at all.  At the time he thought he was following his duties, so that seems like an inaccurate argument to make.  I wasn't there, but I find it hard to solely place blame on a ref who believed he was making the correct call at the time.  After the fact he was found to be wrong (supposedly because I have no first hand knowledge of the situation).  At this point I believe that it would go back to the head ref of the tournament (and probably a committee of others) to decide to change the call.  I think the blame should be spread out a little more than to just one ref though.

[fadedglory]

Agreed. The blame should be spread, as I implied when I stated that "this is an issue for the NDHSAA."

I wasn't there, but I find it hard to solely place blame on a ref who believed he was making the correct call at the time.  After the fact he was found to be wrong (supposedly because I have no first hand knowledge of the situation).  At this point I believe that it would go back to the head ref of the tournament

You said it yourself, you were not there, you do not know what happened.

The head referee was consulted, tournament wrestling was held up for 15 minutes on that mat, the "bite" was proven a scratch by the Medical Trainer on hand. That is where the injustice lies.

Sean Murphy's name is only involved because he is the one paying the price, he actually hasn't done anything wrong. Dillon Finch's name is out there for convenience, anyone is able to go look it up in the brackets, I'm simply saving time and informing others of the scenario. His name is clean as far as the match goes.

Scott Braun's name is out there because I've never seen a call stick that has been refuted this thoroughly and this well.
I've worked with officials before, several times I've been consulted in times of question; this precedent was not followed by the official (this is what I cited as "shirking," to present a more accurate argument)

If I was out here just to drag names through the mud I'd drop a few more names. But I'm not.

[Little Paulie]

Directed at the topic as a whole, not you specifically.

[RED RIDER]

As soon as Sean's name was out there the opponent's name needs to be also.  Anyone with a bracket can look it up, there is no big secret...or is there?  Does he have a history of being bitten.......

The facts are the facts, those are the people involved.

To have it forever "in the books" that you were DQ'd for biting in a sport you haved dedicated this much time to is no small thing.  Everyone has spoken/written to the character of Sean...just giving people a chance to do so with Dillon or Scott (in case they were somehow in the dark as to who was involved)

[4awhile]

As a total neutral outsider looking in, IF indeed what each side is saying is correct, and wrestler A did not bite wrestler B and Official C acknowledges a hiccup, have wrestler A with his coach only wrestle a pigtail with wrestler B and his coach only at a complete neutral site. This would be very simple............the brackets could be changed OR left the same with the stroke of a few keys!!!!!

[maxsdad]

I've been curious since I first read this; What was the score and time of the bout when the dq happened?

[ND-Wrestling]

I've been curious since I first read this; What was the score and time of the bout when the dq happened?

It was in the quarters round.

[Big_Dog]

To address question #37, Sean was up 8-2 on his opponent.  It was the 3rd period. 

After the 1st period, Sean was up 6-2 with his opponent having 2 points on 2 intentional escapes.  Sean deferred his choice in the 2nd and his opponent picked top.  Sean had a reversal late in the 2nd.  Sean choose to be down in the 3rd and at the time of the cross face, his opponent had the legs in but was getting high.  I was anticipating a reversal due to the position of his opponent. 

These matches were the  first matches for the 120 lb class due to an 8 man bracket.  Hence, it was the quarter-finals. 

The complete bracket is on-line.

[Techman]

I am wondering why was the match that the kid that didn't show up permitted to happen. What if a person was not feeling well at the time his match was to take place and than later felt better can he go to the head table and say I missed my match and than wrestle it later especially if he sees his opponant eat a big meal and drink a lot of milk that digests very slowly.

If a person misses his match I was always told you need to pay closer attention but you can't change it. How does the kid feel you thinks he won signs the bout sheet that he won and later is told no your opponant didnt show up when he was suppose to but he is ready now and you have to wrestle not mentally prepared or physically warmed up.

[freestylefan]

 From the news it sounds like the family would like to take it to court. I assume it is the NDHSAA that they want to overturn the decision. If it is the ref they are talking about then that would be a real bad precedent. Good luck finding any refs when parents start taking them to court over missed calls.

 

[Goose89]

Here is the Clip and Article from the news tonight.

http://www.wdaz.com/event/article/id/12279/group/homepage/

[B-WAREofD-WARE]

  Great article. Worrying about the feelings of referees shouldn't be a reason to stop a young man from pursuing what he is passionate about. I know there are some very fine officials in our state and some that we don't agree with. It's a stressful job, I've been there and in the end most do it to give back but at some point you come along a call that is wrong. I'm positive Sean works hard not just during the season but year round and for a ref to jump to conclusions and take away all that he's worked for disgusts me. With the information that has been presented I find there to be enough evidence to over turn this decision but without an appeals process we can continue to rant about this but nothing will change. I applaud you Mr. Murphy for not only fighting against the injustice towards your son but also against the NDSHAA to insure things like this won't happen again in wrestling or in any other sport for that matter.

[fadedglory]

BWare you are the reason I am on this board. Thank you.